• • Tarek Tomes, Commissioner and Chief Information Officer, State of Minnesota
  • Maurice Ferrell, Assistant Dean & CIO, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill- School of Government

Download Podcast
ApplePodcast, GooglePodcast, Spotify, Pandora, iHeartRadio, SoundCloud, TuneIn, and Stitcher. Find other syndication channels here or search CIO Talk Network podcast on any other app.

Explore More

• How Businesses Get Information Technology Wrong, and How To Make it Right
• Taking Charge as Women in Technology
• Is IT and Technology changing from Push to Pull?
• Improving the Quality of Information
• Can IT Leaders Achieve Top Level Service And Support?
• The Future of IT Leadership
• Private/Hybrid Cloud, Security, & Taking that First Step into the Cloud

Transcript

Sanjog Aul [00:00:21]:

Hello, and, welcome to CTN. To learn more about the show, please visit ciotalknetwork.com, and today’s topic is Using Problems To Drive Focus. So here’s the scenario, most leaders take pride in their problem solving abilities. As soon as we hear a problem, we jump on it. Not sure every time we are looking whether it is the right problem for the moment that we should focus on, or is it something which is being thought through properly before we can do much with it? Do we have even the bandwidth to deal with it? But we jump in because that’s who we are. We are problem solvers. So if we are to do this, imagine as a leader, and then everyone else follows suit in our organization, that is the IT organization, we will never be able to really do the right things and we’ll be all over, and if this happens at the organization level, God bless us. Not sure what it’ll result in which will be chaos. So what do we do about it? What do we do with the problems that come our way, the ones which we have in hand and be the one we anticipate? We’d like to discuss this and see how it can be this whole whole discipline of problem solving can be improved or transformed so that it results in getting the problem solved properly, but at the same time drive organizational focus. To discuss this, I have two very experienced executives, Tarek Tomes, commissioner and CIO for the state of Minnesota. Hey, Tarek. How are you?

Tarek Tomes [00:01:54]:

Not too bad, Sanjog Aul. Thank you for having me on today.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:58]:

Absolutely. The pleasure is mine, and we have Maurice Farrell, who’s the assistant dean and CIO, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Government. Hey, Maurice. How’s life?

Maurice Farrell [00:02:08]:

Hey, Sanjog Aul. Thank you for having us, and super excited to be having this conversation today.

Sanjog Aul [00:02:13]:

Awesome. So, Tarek, first question. If we were to set the stage and we have a lot of things going on at any given time today. Right? Most interesting times that at least I saw in my lifetime. If so much flux is going on, what are we doing to solve problems and which are at hand, but not lose sight of the organizational focus?

Tarek Tomes [00:02:42]:

It’s a really great question, and I think the COVID-19 pandemic has really caused many organizations to reflect on how can you quickly pivot to a different set of problems while still maintaining that operational focus on larger objectives. In the state of Minnesota, we are guided by the governor’s One Minnesota plan, which is a broad plan, related or centered around five broad goal areas, equity and inclusion, thriving communities, providing the best opportunities for children, the environment, and really being financially sound and data driven, and I think when something like COVID-19 hits and you have the need to really reprioritize what you’re doing, I think the organizational values that you have still have to be a lens that you look through. I think the definition of where do we start and how do we focus and how do we prioritize that work, we have to also center on the people that we’re looking to solve problems for. Frequently, when we have that problem statement, it may actually just be a symptom. It may actually not be the root of the problem, and I think making sure that you’re really in tune and engaged with your stakeholders, making sure that you’re really in tune with the people that you’re solving problems for to really be person-centered with the problems that you’re trying to solve and then really ideating and involving and inviting a lot of people into that ideation sphere is incredibly, incredibly important.

Sanjog Aul [00:04:35]:

So, Maurice, you must be busy with whatever you’re doing in your role and plus many other things that are happening at any given time. Comes a problem. You have a choice. You put it in the tray to be done later, to be done now, but it whosoever’s problem it is, they’ll say get it done now, and that’s not new for you, but then now we have so many things changing, and that could also change what the organization should focus on and what you should focus on. What happens to your rationalization and prioritization formula, which you learned and adopted and experienced and worked using that for so many years, and everything has been thrown out, and you have to learn learn afresh and try to deal with it. What’s your formula today to deal with problems?

Maurice Farrell [00:05:24]:

That’s a great question. I find it fascinating. We started out so I’m just gonna just use the university for an example. We were marching along, doing business as normal, having students on campus conducting classes. Our particular institution, we work with every local government and state government employee throughout the state of North Carolina. So we typically have our clients and students come to the building, and the experience of being on campus is a great one here in North Carolina, and our students look forward to that opportunity, and all of a sudden, a pandemic hits, and so now we are having to shift and to rethink how do we get instruction out. We’re having to reprioritize how we engage, not only with our clients, but also with our faculty who pride themselves on bringing you into the classroom, controlling that environment, and getting that information out. So it was quite a unique shift that we had to assume. So one of the things that we really try to do was, first of all, is not lose our cool and also remember what we did well, and what we do well is get information out. We provide a valuable service to our community, by making sure that we have really good knowledge and information that we can support our local government client group, our students, so that they can perform their jobs better. So we had to remember what we did well. The other piece of this is so we’re not able to come to the building now. So how do we take all of this amazing knowledge, all of these assets that we have built over the years? How do we now put that into a medium or a platform by which we can still engage with our client group that our faculty can still feel supported and feel like that they are able to be their genuine selves in the rooms. So, like Tarek said earlier, it was really about having conversations with different groups of people, ensuring that we had a platform that we could put out there that individuals could feel like they were still part of the UNC family, and it was interesting because that didn’t emerge as the top choice. The top choice was still trying to figure out how do we do the things that do the things like we’ve always done them, and it finally hit in that we’re not gonna be able to do that, and once we finally made that critical choice to say, okay, we’re gonna shift focuses, not necessarily in how we, we’re still gonna get good information out there. The focus is maybe the platform by which we deliver that, and so once we were able to sort of make that shift, we could then train faculty. We could then prepare our clients that we’re gonna be doing x, y, and z now versus you come into the building, and I will say that for the first three months, it was really very stressful, but after we had a few faculty to go through that process, we felt like that they started to embrace it. They started to feel more comfortable with it, and then that allowed us to then be able to now start to really have a focus around how can we solve problems going forward. This is not just a short term lens that we’re taking, but we’re looking at this as a long-term deal. So I think it’s really important to really identify the problem, understand what you do well, but then being able to make that shift to where it’s not just you solving the problem for right now, but that you’re looking at it from a holistic perspective of what this book means for our future.

Sanjog Aul [00:09:40]:

So, Tarek, when it was live as usual, we would get our hands slapped if we were reactionary and say, okay. Whatever problem comes, then you figure out what to do or which problems to solve. You got to have some idea about your organizational focus and use that as a benchmark to rationalize and prioritize them, and now if you try to go with what the business used to do in the past or pre COVID-19, you will lose your shirt. So is it a chicken and egg story, or is it the demands of the time that you keep your traditional ivory tower organizational focus on the side and be reactionary so that you take any problem. Just evaluate based on the amount of damage it can cause you, the amount of risk it can create for you, and just go after it and let everyone who you taught to do it otherwise be retaught or they should unlearn and be retaught that just go after the biggest problem, which is gonna cause us the biggest damage at this time. What would be your advice to anyone who’s dealing with this?

Tarek Tomes [00:10:47]:

Well, I agree with everything that Maurice just said. Certainly concur with a lot of that sentiment. I think one of the things that we have all experienced is if you rewind 5 months and you can slowly see, across the globe, this pandemic moving and moving in a direction where it’s gonna impact us, and that changed all of our priorities. We moved from a society that had a lot of flexibility that had a lot of various social, economic, and educational opportunities to one that, in many instances, and certainly in Minnesota, resulted in a stay at home order where our lives fundamentally changed really, really drastically, and as such, quickly you have to pivot. What an organization really attempts to pride itself on is trying to really build a connected culture where we’re connected with one another, where we’re connected with the business organizations that we co-create with, or we’re connected with the businesses, residents, Minnesotans that we serve, and there’s a certain anticipation that goes along with that that you have to be willing to stake some bets to some things that may work out and that may not work out. In our case, the anticipation of what this future would look like for a while allowed us to successfully navigate that transition, and in Minnesota, we have 1,200,000 Minnesotans that work remotely every single day. Approximately 1/4 of our workforce works remotely every day. As you get used to that construct and a new set of priorities and a new set of hardships that many people face, our world was really shook by the heinous murder of George Floyd and a realization that something that you did not or could not possibly imagine being pushed to the background, something as significant as COVID-19 was pushed to the background as there were much greater societal things, and with that came another set of priorities and another set of challenges that need to be solved, and I think in our role, a couple of things happen that you really have to carefully assess. That strategic vision, those documents that we create, whether they’re tactical plans or strategic plans that have our mission and vision and values and all those things that we carefully craft and then share out. When you have events like the murder of George Floyd and we have events like a COVID-19 pandemic, the values that you espouse in those types of articles really should allow you to have a foundation that you can continue to pivot through, and if not, it’s an opportunity to reassess a little bit, because all of those values should not be out of the window as you’re dealing with any of these types of instances. One of the things that I think is really important, and it’s just a shift for us, is the need to innovate, the need to build a culture where we’re in this hyper productive mode, where we’re in a hyper agile mode together, co-creating with our business partners. Some things that we’re not really sure how they’re gonna work, but society and the people that rely on us, they don’t have time for us to endlessly research how to do it perfectly. We have to be willing to fight through our imperfections. One of the things that we talk about a lot is just getting comfortable with being uncomfortable and getting comfortable with taking risks. When you think about the unprecedented number of people that are on unemployment insurance and the vast number of changes that need to be made to continue to deliver those critical services or emergency food support to people, it really necessitates a culture where you’re willing to drive fast towards understanding what the options are and take some calculated risks. The innovation space as it relates to technology and the ton of capabilities that exist in our space, there’s never been a greater demand, and there’s never been a greater opportunity to really lean forward with opportunities where technology cannot just support a remote workforce or support a reaction, but technology and innovative solutions can really be a catalyst for changing the trajectory and changing the outcome, and then just to add, because I don’t want to forget it, I did not realize that Maurice was with the University of North Carolina, and I’m a lifelong Tar Heel fan. So I just wanted to get that out there.

Maurice Farrell [00:16:18]:

That’s awesome.

Sanjog Aul [00:16:20]:

So let’s take a quick break, listeners. We’ll be right back, and, Maurice, when we come back, let’s talk about this word problem. It can be seen as a burden or it can be seen as an opportunity. So if we were to do this right, what would it take to use this whole action and the planning and the effort we put into solving problems and build it as a form of capability or use it as a way to build capability of our people, whether in business or in technology. So we don’t feel that we were just spinning our wheels solving one problem after another. We are still building a castle, and every problem that we tackle and partially or fully solve is like laying a brick towards building that castle. Please stay tuned, listeners. We’ll be right back and explore.

Speaker 0 [00:17:21]:

Today, enterprise technology is both strategic and global. Each week on CTN CIO Talk Network, IT thought leaders from around the world share their experience with listeners as they discuss with Sanjog Aul how they are trimming costs and partnering with business to innovate and help IT become more competitive, better care for customers, and improve the corporate bottom line. If you want to keep up with IT thought leadership, listen to CTN, CIO Talk Network, with Sanjog Aul at ciotalknetwork.com. You are listening to CTN CIO Talk Network with Sanjog Aul. To learn more about our program, please visit ciotalknetwork.com. Now back to the show.

Sanjog Aul [00:18:16]:

Welcome back. So, Maurice, problem can be seen as a burden or it can be an opportunity. Depends on the mindset, but also the kind of leadership that we demonstrate, and that’s how everyone who works with us or follows us will perceive such problems. So that’s one. What do we do about converting or shifting that mindset for it to be seen as a burden versus to and convert that into an opportunity? That’s one. Then second is, how about we strategically every time a problem comes, yes, we want to give the solution yesterday, but how can we take a step back and see if that set of problems that we use are kinda weaved into a form of a capability or a set of capabilities we deliver develop along the way and also develop people along the way no matter what crisis it is, and every problem helps us develop, but how about going taking a little strategic route even though we are scrambling, even though we are dealing with something unprecedented in today’s times? What would be your recipe or approach to doing that?

Maurice Farrell [00:19:16]:

That’s a great question, and, first of all, I like to say, we would like to think that we were able to sort of cherry pick our problems, that we were able to pick those things that align really nicely with our personnel and our strategic goals and visions, but, unfortunately, that is not the case. Sometimes your problems pick you, and so when this particular set of situations that we all are dealing with, now we have to really look at this problem from a perspective of how can we best position our organization, not just for today, but for tomorrow. So I think, really, after you get over the initial hit that we have a problem that picked us and that we were not probably all that well prepared for, how do we now take a quick inventory of our company assets or organizational assets, look at the type of people that we have on our teams, the type of skill sets that are gonna be needed going in the future, and how do we create strategic vision around those things. So one of the things that we try to do, especially in the event of COVID-19, when we realized that we were gonna have to move all of our courses to an online format, we realized very quickly that we were gonna need not only those technical people who could handle supporting an infrastructure such as Zoom or Cisco Webex or whatever the flavor of the month is, but we also were gonna need individuals who could help our faculty think about how they could create presentation and online content that would engage students. We had been talking about that for I don’t know how long, ever since I’ve been at the school, and yet, we never really had the pressing need to move in that space even though we could see that that would be a strategic vision, that that’s a strategic area that we should be moving into, but because we are comfortable, and I like what Tarek said, you have to be willing to embrace being comfortable with being uncomfortable, and I think now we’re getting to the place where nothing is comfortable anymore. I mean, wearing a mask is not comfortable, but you have to do it. Having to work from home is not comfortable, but you’re finding ways to do it, and so what we’re doing is versus succumbing to the problem, we’re trying to find solutions and opportunities to catapult us not only just for today, but for the years to come. So really quickly thinking about our mission and goals, that’s to make sure that we’re improving the lives of North Carolinians through research and teaching. So now that mission hasn’t changed, but we’re adding components to help us get that mission further out to our groups, and some of the quick results are showing that our tier one counties, our rural counties are now able to participate because previously they probably didn’t have the budget to come to campus, but now they could log in and take part of our classes through an online format. I think the other piece of this is really understanding the skill sets that you have on your team and being able to develop them in different ways. So we had a great group of IT professionals who were very technical. We quickly saw that we needed to ramp up in certain other areas, so we brought in instructional designers. We started to develop individuals that had user design experience, and that has paid dividends for us. So we’re not only able to continue to meet our objectives, but we have used this set of problems to really create strategic initiatives for our school, and now we’re beginning to create new goals that help us to eventually meet the mission and vision of the school. So we’re developing people differently. Our IT people are thinking differently about how they need to do their work, and our faculty are embracing the role that we can do things differently now, and it will be received well. So long story short, making sure that you turn the problem into a strategic initiative is really important by aligning it to the goals of the organization, but then also making sure that you have a good foundation of personnel that can help you reach those goals. If you don’t have the right people to do that, you’re gonna really struggle in this area.

Sanjog Aul [00:24:28]:

So, Tarek, based on Maurice’s response, we can truly convert, strategic, or these set of problems into a strategic capability development exercise. Now that’s good, and I’m sure we are trying to do it. At the same time, let’s look at that individual who signed up to join your IT department a year or so ago or maybe more. They didn’t expect this thing to go out of control, and they did not think that they were supposed to be thinking like a leader. It’s not that nobody wants to be a leader, but they have not grown themselves yet or they have not grown to that level yet. So and you cannot, alone by the way, Tarek, pull this off either. That means you need these leaders alongside you who may be part of your team, but they still behave and exude leadership, and you have not gotten the time yet to develop them into a fully cooked leader yet. What are you doing by getting them to get to a level where they can think like you or even better than you to get the ship sailing again?

Tarek Tomes [00:25:40]:

Well, I certainly think that they frequently very frequently think better than me, and I think just understanding the role that we play in supporting them and really growing that confidence in building a culture that democratizes the voice of employees that really allows for people to weigh in to the magnitude of challenges that exist. One of the things that I think every organization has is a certain percent of your workforce that are really change agents that are really eager to tackle tomorrow’s problems today that may not think through the solutioning within the confines of past hurdles or past failures or past barriers, and I think identifying those folks and really creating a construct that allows people to opt into that solutioning is really, really important. Like all organizations, we’ve had an unprecedented demand for just really quick rapid innovation related to how we provide services, and that has necessitated us to reach out to people across organizational silo boundaries to really tap into talents and energies and motivations that we probably wouldn’t have been aware of without these great moments of need. There’s a saying in terms of moments of need sometimes create the biggest moments of opportunity, and we have certainly seen that across our organization. I think creating that construct that empowers people, that really allows people to have a voice at the table, that allows people to feel that they can take risks with some of the suggestions and ideas that really has that human-centered design approach where we prototype rapidly, test prototypes, look for MVP type solutions, and provide value in a really, really quick way. The pandemic, as well as the larger societal challenges that we see and highlighted, certainly not new, have been most recently highlighted with the murder of George Floyd. We just have a lot of people that are interested in well beyond just the daily performance of their job. They’re genuinely very eager to dive into how can I contribute to make this world a better place? Creating that space where we’re not looking to provide a technology solution for anything, but we’re looking to provide a societal solution, something that’s really gonna make someone’s life different when we provide emergency food benefits or we provide testing solutions for teachers or we’re looking into challenges moving our students to an online learning world where some don’t have access to devices, some don’t have access to the Internet, where disparities that have always existed have only grown larger. We keep our eye on the fact that this is only highlighting preexisting disparities and leaning into providing any of the solutions for this moment of need actually will provide an opportunity to hopefully shrink those disparities going forward. I think our folks are generally motivated by that mission, by that opportunity to make someone’s life a little bit different. I’m sure Maurice at North Carolina with the vast number of challenges that students have and some are living in rented housing, but there aren’t classes online and there’s financial pressures because maybe they don’t have an opportunity to have a side job the same way and there’s this digital online learning construct. There’s just so many unprecedented challenges facing our society right now, and I think we just have a genuine group of people that are so eager to help lean into that. The other thing that we have done that is really important is we have broadened out that solutioning. We’ve really invited in, at least for us, an unprecedented partnership with the private sector. We’ve seen an unprecedented partnership with just everyday Minnesotans in terms of how we can co-create together. I hope certainly that that’s one of the constructs that live well beyond this current situation.

Sanjog Aul [00:31:06]:

Let’s took, take a quick break listeners. When we come back, Maurice, how about looking at the intentionality? Because every time we have a problem, I’m sure you’re under the gun to do something about it, and naturally that the pressure, trickles down, and in that moment, we typically tend to forget that we had this grand idea about using problem solving to drive organizational focus as the topic that we have picked today. What would you say? And we’ll take a quick break when we come back, and then let’s talk about it, but what would you do, new, more, or different, to instill this intentionality so that every time you’re not prodding people and this starts happening organically within your organization. Please stay tuned listeners. We’ll be right back.

Speaker 0 [00:32:04]:

Today, enterprise technology is both strategic and global. Each week on CTN CIO Talk Network, IT thought leaders from around the world share their experience with listeners as they discuss with Sanjog Aul how they are trimming costs and partnering with business to innovate and help IT become more competitive, better care for customers, and improve the corporate bottom line. If you want to keep up with IT thought leadership, listen to CTN, CIO Talk Network with Sanjog Aul at ciotalknetwork.com. You are listening to CTN CIO Talk Network with Sanjog Aul. To learn more about our program, please visit ciotalknetwork.com. Now back to the show.

Sanjog Aul [00:32:59]:

Welcome back. So, Maurice, intentionality, we have to be intentional about introducing intentionality about using problems to drive organizational focus. Looks pretty good, pretty cool as part of a talk show, but when you go on the ground, have a fire to fight and multiple at the same time, what do you do to prevent that intentionality from fizzling out? And in fact, not just your job to keep prodding them, but it becomes part of the DNA of your organization that whenever something comes up, yes, we will try to jump on it to solve that problem, but we don’t lose that approach that we’re gonna use this as an opportunity to drive organizational focus.

Maurice Farrell [00:33:45]:

Absolutely. So one of the things I think, and I’m sure Tarek can co-sign this. The last thing we want to do is be reactionary. Basically, every time a problem comes up, we’re reacting versus being strategic and proactive in our approach to solving problems. So I think one of the key elements that we’re trying to do, and we have really made some headway in this area, and I heard Tarek talk about this with his team and what they’re doing in Minnesota, but you really have to have your team see the value in the work that they’re doing, not just to solve the problem, but beyond the problem that you’re trying to solve. Are we solving a bigger issue? What I have noticed, especially in these last few months, is that our team, they are seeing the benefit of the work that they do on a day in, day out basis. So that helps them to stay locked in, stay focused on solving this problem, not because it’s solving the problem just for the problem’s sake, but they actually see the benefit of the university being able to do online instruction or remote instruction. They see the benefit in being able to engage with the client that’s in the western part of the state that can never get to the campus of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. So they see their role in helping the school obtain that ability and accomplish that mission, and so that brings value to their work, which then makes them your eyes and ears to the ground, so they hear problems as they’re swelling up, and so now you can be very proactive in your approaches to ensuring that you’re not just reacting to the latest thing that’s happening in your environment. I think that is really important because we are in such a high flux, very unstable environment to say the least, that you have the ability and the desire to ensure that you have team members that are willing to understand that their work that they’re doing is not just solving the problem, but it’s actually helping with the mission, and it’s creating better livelihoods for all North Carolinians and for all of those who are connected to our campus. I think that helps bring meaning and value to their work while also, instead of the tail wagging the dog, you can be the one being proactive in solving these problems. I think that is really, really important.

Sanjog Aul [00:36:39]:

So, Tarek, whenever you may have a problem, I’m sure you got some prima donnas in the team. Hopefully not, but if they are or there’s some overzealous people, and they may say, oh, I wanna raise my hands. I wanna jump on this problem. I wanna offer solutions, but then there may be many others who may be relatively quieter individuals, not passive, but quieter. They may have the right type of solutions. How do you identify that even though this problem is one of a kind and even though nobody has the solution, you even out the contribution from people because while one problem will go away, another will come. You don’t stop developing people uniformly.

Tarek Tomes [00:37:29]:

You know, I think one of the things that is really important for all organizations is just to have a broad diversity of perspectives, and you can’t have a broad diversity of perspectives unless you put value and importance on having diversity within your team and within your workforce, and you create space to make sure that the variety of voices are heard. There are certainly those that are a little bit more quiet, and you may need to be a little bit more intentional about getting their thoughts and opinions. Those thoughts and opinions are incredibly important. So I think that culture that I alluded to for us in Minnesota, we refer to that as our connected culture. It has really been one of the most important things for me over the past 14 months is just to continue to build that connected culture that respects each other’s perspectives and really values the input from a diversity of different backgrounds and perspectives. The other piece that I think is incredibly important though is that we don’t jump to solutioning right away. When we are confronted with an opportunity or what someone may portray as a problem, we immediately go to who are we gonna impact. Let’s spend a little bit of time talking to the people that we’re gonna impact. Let’s go through the formality of conducting empathy interviews. Let’s really get an understanding, that traditional journey mapping process. Let’s really understand what does it look like to go to school every day through the eyes of a student and then craft solutions that are built and based on what we learn and the various themes that jump about from that perspective, and then also invite those people into the ideation process. There are so many complexities involved. If we just jump to solutioning, we’ll craft something pretty smart from a technology perspective, probably pretty innovative. It may not actually meet the needs of people that rely on that particular service. So I think that piece is really important. The other thing that I think is really, really incredibly important in the last five months has really highlighted this is we traditionally have spent maybe a little bit too much time trying to make something perfect. So when we think about our solutioning, we spend a lot of time on polishing and testing. Those things are incredibly important, but I think what we’ve seen in this hyper agile space here in the last five months is that sometimes solutions in order for them to have efficacy and to be valuable, they don’t have to be perfect. Our iteration and learning how to pivot those things actually outweighs waiting longer and getting something perfect.

Sanjog Aul [00:40:33]:

So Yeah. Go ahead.

Maurice Farrell [00:40:36]:

Okay. So if I jump in, I think it’s really important, when we’re thinking about making sure that you hear all the voices, and I agree with Tarek. I think having diversity on your team is really important. I have a couple of what I call traditional IT professionals, those individuals you might see in the basement with the hoodies, the typical stereotypical IT professional. They are introverted by nature. Leaving space for those individuals to process what the problem is, process their solution set, and giving them an opportunity to have their voice shared, maybe not in the large group, is really important to think about as you’re trying to make sure that you’re getting the best possible solution set.

Sanjog Aul [00:41:26]:

Absolutely. So, question for you, Maurice, again. When you are trying to solve any problem and IT literally has most of the time minimal or no budget. I mean, you may be luckier than most. I’m not. The tendency is to try to solve a problem in the least expensive manner, and, of course, since we are always under the gun, always have a spinning plate as quickly as possible, but that may always not be in the interest of the organization. Now with the changing times and the changing priorities and everything has to be done yesterday, how do you deal with it? And while doing all of this, don’t lose focus the organizational focus that you’re trying to develop as part of problem solving. A loaded question, but I think it deserves a response.

Maurice Farrell [00:42:21]:

It is a loaded question, but I will say, I think it’s really important that as IT professionals and leaders that we do not make a decision solely based on the expense. Many times, we can and I’ve witnessed where we cut cost, and we just didn’t get the solution that we needed. What that ends up being is a sunk cost, and a lot of times they refer to this in decision making as a sunk cost trap because you don’t wanna let it go because you’ve invested some money into it. So you continue to invest in something that’s never gonna bring you the value that is needed to solve the institution’s problem. So what we’ve tried to do is really keep the problem and the strategic vision at the forefront. We have tried to really make sure that we are getting solutions that are,  we’re trying to be cost conscious, obviously, but at the same time, we wanna make sure that the solution is going to bring the organization back the value that we put into it. So, Zoom, for example, we spent money to have Zoom for our campus, but at the same time, Zoom has provided the resources that has given us the ability to engage with our clients to offer classes that now that investment is providing a return on it. So I think thinking holistically about what you’re trying to do and what systems make the most sense over the long haul. You might not see it right away, but over the long haul is really important. I don’t think you can shortchange yourself with these massive systems, and then you end up spending as much money trying to modify it, customize it to give you the true value that the organization needs from it.

Tarek Tomes [00:44:40]:

Could I just chime in on that as well? I totally agree with what Maurice just said.

Sanjog Aul [00:44:46]:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Tarek Tomes [00:44:48]:

I was just gonna add, one of the things that I think is really important and we’ve had a considerable amount of conversation related to this exact point is it’s so important for us, for technologists to be really, really bold. When we come forth with an opportunity where technology can make a difference and that carries with it a certain price tag, I think it’s so important that we really advocate that we don’t stop with what,  it’s a business decision whether to move forward or not because we have to think through the eyes of the business as we are a part of that and when we are so invested in those exact same outcomes. We have to exhibit that same passion when it comes to the opportunity cost, and I think the MVP approach where we’re looking to return value and really creating a minimally viable product before we go with the biggest or the most expansive solution is a really important factor in that as well.

Sanjog Aul [00:46:03]:

One last question for both of you, maybe less than a minute each. What would you fix in yourself as a leader? I mean, yeah, we’re trying to fix people. We’re trying to fix environment. We want to figure out how to deal with business leaders, etcetera, but what would be that said one thing? Let’s not make it long, but just one top thing. Maurice, you would fix in you so that you’re able to drive focus through problem solving.

Maurice Farrell [00:46:31]:

I thought I was fixed already, but when you asked me this question, I realized that I think the thing that I really need to keep in mind in helping me to be a better leader is the advocacy piece to talk to our stakeholders, our clients, and ensuring that we are all talking from the same language, that we all have the same vocabulary, and that we’re all talking and moving in the same direction. I think that is critically important, and sometimes, trying to solve problems, you may shortcut some of those things. I think it’s really important to spend that time even if it delays a process. I think it’s really important to do that.

Sanjog Aul [00:47:20]:

Great. Tarek, thirty seconds.

Tarek Tomes [00:47:23]:

Well, I think there’s a long list of things that I need to continually work on. I think that continually that comes to mind is patience, and just a never-ending empathy for the anxiety that technology provokes in those that may not be as familiar, and I think just continuing to work on patience related to what we can accomplish in a reasonable amount of time and that tremendous amount of empathy that is needed in this space is really important.

Sanjog Aul [00:48:00]:

Once again, thank you, Tarek and Maurice for sharing your insights and thoughts about how IT leaders can use problem solving to drive organizational focus.

Maurice Farrell [00:48:11]:

Thank you

Tarek Tomes [00:48:12]:

so much for having us.

Maurice Farrell [00:48:13]:

Really enjoyed it.

Sanjog Aul [00:48:14]:

And thanks once again. So, listeners, hope you enjoyed. I got some nuggets out of it. Hopefully, we’ll be whenever we are solving problem, we will think organizational focus moving forward. So please connect with us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Pinterest. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple and Google Podcasts and over 20 other destinations we are already on, and, keep following us and giving us ideas on what we can do better. Once again, thank you for listening to CTN. This is Sanjog Aul, your talk show host. Till next week, take care, and God bless.