A successful leader needs to offer direction and vision that goes beyond what is said and what is needed among the team. A leader must know a team’s wants and needs before they do. He or she must know when to prod, when to coax and when to do nothing at all. A leader needs that Sixth Sense to help their team succeed. So just how do you tap into and hone that sense?

Contributor

• • Frank Wander, Author, Former CIO, People Productive, LLC (Formerly The IT Excellence Institute)

Transcript (The Sixth Sense of Leadership)

Sanjog Aul [00:00:24]:
About the show. Please visit www.ciotalkradio.com and as always, we invite you to join the on Twitter #Ctrlive and look for the show as #leadership. Today’s topic is the Sixth Sense Of Leadership and our guest for today’s show is Frank Wander, who’s the author, former CIO, and the founder of People Productive, llC. Good morning, Frank. How are you?

Frank Wander [00:00:48]:
Sanjog, Good morning. How are you?

Sanjog Aul [00:00:50]:
Oh, life could not be better. How are things with you?

Frank Wander [00:00:53]:
You know, things have been going very, very well. Really enjoying the new business a lot. I think the timing has been perfect, actually, because people want to build productivity and innovation. So, yeah, I’m feeling good about things.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:06]:
Great. Now you are a leader and you’ve been a CIO and now you’re helping organizations from a people standpoint. And what we wanted to do today is to explore an idea we’re calling the Sixth Sense of Leadership. It’s basically like a special sauce that might help certain leaders to be successful and help them separate them from help them by separating them from the rest. Now we feel that it’s about being able to offer direction and vision beyond what is said or immediately needed of the team and you’re able to perhaps figure out what they say. Of course, their needs are based on what they say as well as what they don’t say. So is that sixth sense something special? Is that something people are able to.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:55]:
It’s a nature versus a nurture thing. We wanted to explore all of that. So to begin with, what is your take on this term sixth sense, when it comes in the context of. It’s used in the context of leadership.

Frank Wander [00:02:08]:
Yes Sanjog, you always run a great show and this is actually a great topic. I love it. You know, a sixth sense, people talk about it all the time. It’s very obvious that, you know, seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, a tasting are the five main senses. But when you get to the sixth sense, you’re really talking about the difference between the conscious and the unconscious mind. And when you start to talk about the unconscious mind, you’re talking about a tool that is so incredibly powerful.

Frank Wander [00:02:35]:
And actually, based on research, they estimate that the conscious mind processes information at about 2,000 bits a second, whereas the subconscious is processing around 40 million bits of information a second. It is vastly different. It is taking in so many perceptions in the environment. That you’re not consciously aware of, which is why subliminal marketing and other things actually do work. You remember that famous experiment where they had, you know, they were running a movie 24 frames per second, and one of every 24 frames was a glass of cold, you know, sweaty coca cola, and people would all get up and eventually run and want a coca cola. So all this information is really coming into the subconscious mind. So it’s the seen versus the unseen and I would say that there’s two primary things that leaders have in this sixth sense that can help them really lead and move forward.

Frank Wander [00:03:33]:
One is abstraction probably about 5% of the population is really good at abstraction and that’s the ability to kind of abstract a picture out of a set of variables. You know, humans evolved to perhaps, you know, spot a dangerous animal in the wild grass where it would blend in, but you would be able to make sense of it. Well, today in the modern world, that ability to abstract that picture out of these environment variables gives you the ability to take in a lot of information and basically establish a strategy, because you could see where things are going, you could put those pieces together and in a sense, you know, the ability to do that is somewhat of a gift. But, you know, people do have. All people have some level of abstraction.

Frank Wander [00:04:17]:
There’s also social intelligence with all of these kind of social cues and other things that are going on. Much of human interaction is really all these nonverbal cues. Humans didn’t evolve speech until some point very late in the revolution. So much of the communication was nonverbal. The brain, the subconscious brain, is taking all of this in all the time, and you can consciously take it in and be aware of it and use it. So, you know, that slight squint in the eyes, maybe somebody that you’re asking questions to, is beginning to show discomfort as their leg starts moving. You know, leaders should understand, really, and begin to take in all the information to understand, you know, what is everybody’s baseline behavior. Just get a feel for the place

Frank Wander [00:05:02]:
and then when those behaviors change, of course, that’s a cue that there’s perhaps something you should dig into. So much of this comes down to building that sixth sense, because everybody has it.

Sanjog Aul [00:05:15]:
Very, interesting way to position the term sixth sense and how, what’s the genesis of what this is now? The answer that you gave and the ways that you suggest that somebody could figure out what somebody is looking for or doing or thinking by their nonverbal cues, which is body language and those type of things. Now, let’s think about a leader by design, and we’re talking about an organizational leader. They may not always be sitting in front of or next to an individual who they’re trying to figure out, and they may not be trying to do one at a time. They might be trying to figure out what’s the mindset of a group of people or the company as a whole or subgroup, whatever that might be. But all that has to be somehow sensed, made sense of, and then act accordingly so that you are building a positively reinforcing cycle, if you will, all of feedback loop which will keep making you better. And as a result, you build the respect, they follow you and life is good. How do you take two people not present or not working together, not in front of each other, and still be able to develop that sixth sense? Is there something like that even possible?

Frank Wander [00:06:33]:
You’ve hit on a very important topic and it’s this whole notion of remote worker. People are working remote from one another today, and people often feel that they don’t really. They don’t really have a sense of what’s going on with an individual who’s working remotely. Because you have only the voice cues. That means you’re missing an awful lot of information that you would be taking in through your eyes and looking at the surroundings, looking at the individual’s interaction. So you really don’t have all the information. And the question comes down to you’ve got to get to know the organization. If you have a lot of remote people, San Joe, you’re going to have to get out and meet these people.

Frank Wander [00:07:15]:
You’re going to have to get around and get out of the office because once you meet them, you build a different level of trust. You’ll get to know somewhat their baseline behavior and big organizations. You know, you’re going to know the people well, a couple levels under you. You’re not going to know everybody. You’ll notice a lot of people, you meet a lot of people, but you get to know the people who are a couple layers below you very, very well. And you can build that sixth sense. You can begin to drive remote worker engagement, which is very important as a leader who has remote workers, because you can begin to pay attention with and build that relationship. So I think there’s a lot you can do with remote workers.

Frank Wander [00:07:56]:
But ultimately you’ve got to build trust with the organization because you’re going to want to be able to take in as much information as possible. Unfortunately, the human factors that drive productivity and innovation, all of these things we’re talking about are a blind spot because coming out of the industrial era, people were nothing more than interchangeable parts. And today, unfortunately, in many cases, they’re treated as an expense and not an asset. So leaders are going to have to develop these skills. They’re there. They haven’t leveraged them, they haven’t developed them. But they need to develop that sixth sense. There’s no question about it.

Sanjog Aul [00:08:32]:
So in a way, you’re saying that we have to first make the best use of our five senses and also spend some time with these people in order for us to develop that sixth sense. Now, this is interesting. We did an exercise yesterday as part of us seeing how to best address this topic, and we created a cluster. A cluster is a form. Clustering is a form of exercise. As you know, it’s like building mental maps. So with people, when we said, what would make someone follow you, lead you, and think that you really are a good leader, that means you provide resources. And these are.

Sanjog Aul [00:09:07]:
I’m literally reading off of those balloons that were created. So provide resources, you genuinely care, and you have to show signs that you care. Then you make them safe and secure, make them feel safe and secure. You make things easy for them to learn and or adapt. You fulfill promises, you make them independent. You connect and communicate. You solve their problems, get to know them as an individual and provide direction and vision. Now, these are all the different balloons I just rambled here.

Sanjog Aul [00:09:41]:
And all of these things have to somehow be done with people, whether or not they are present. And they should somehow be able to connect these activities or these givings from a leader back to the leader for the cumulative effect, for that to. For a follower to feel that you are the right leader. And that’s why I’m going to follow you and I’m going to do everything that in my capacity to follow your vision that you’re laying out. You see where I’m going with this?

Frank Wander [00:10:14]:
Yeah, totally. There’s no question that individuals make a choice on whether or not they want to follow the leaders they have. There are a lot of different factors that will get an individual to follow a leader. You mentioned caring, caring is one of the most basic acts, and I believe that is fundamental to being a servant leader. A servant leader sees his job as making the individuals in the environment under him as successful as possible. So if you happen to have 1,000 people or more working for you, even if you have 20 people working for you, your job remains the same. You’ve got to create 20 or 1000 of the most productive individuals possible

Frank Wander [00:10:59]:
and you’re going to care about the environment they work in, you want to create a fun, open environment, you’re going to understand that the work is really done by the connectedness of all these people I always call it the social fabric of it. That is, in fact, the means by which work gets done. People are highly connected they each contribute a piece. I like to look at it oftentimes as if you’re a conductor and they’re composers and they’re all supplying certain notes to the symphony that has to get written.

Frank Wander [00:11:32]:
And your job is to make sure that they all play incredibly beautiful music together. And, you know, it’s trust is so fundamental to the entire equation and caring is one of the mechanisms or primary mechanisms that enables individuals to eventually develop trust and there’s a cycle of caring and it’s called noticing, feeling, responding and you notice something about the other individual. Maybe they’re looking down because you’re familiar with them and their behavior,

Frank Wander [00:12:02]:
you notice their expression, you feel that in yourself, and you respond and you walk over and say, you know, look, you’re looking a little down today. You know, anything I could do to help you, and the mere fact that you actually responded is going to improve their mood and we know from the studies at Wharton and other places that that mood will stay up for the rest of the day, greatly increasing productivity. You know, we could talk a lot about this strategic trust and other things that make people want to follow you, but it’s all about the fact you care and you’re a leader that’s taking them to a place where they believe is a good outcome.

Sanjog Aul [00:12:39]:
Now, Frank, when we look at whatever we are trying to do within an organization, one is that we will have to kind of know them before we lead them and in order for us to do that, there will be a certain time that we might have to spend with them. When you are coming to a new organization as a leader, does it become a catch 22 or is there a waiting time that only when you get to know them and only when you start working with them incrementally is when they will see that you care and all those different areas that we just discussed will start falling into place.

Frank Wander [00:13:21]:
When you arrive in a company, there’s an onboarding process. As a leader, I’ve onboarded in many companies, people are going to wait and see if your deeds match your words. You have to have a very clear understanding of who you are as a leader, and right up front, you’re going to communicate it. I would always come into a place and say, we’re going to build a caring organization and I would explain why in fact talent mattered and all of my actions would show that really I was there to make them successful as much as possible. Now, it doesn’t mean that everybody’s a cultural fit some people are not

Frank Wander [00:13:58]:
and you really do have to actually help people who aren’t a cultural fit move on. That’s part of caring about everybody and building a high performing culture. But if your deeds and people will really respond to not what you say, but what you do, because what you do is really what drives kind of organizational behavior because people model your behavior as a leader. It comes down to you being authentic and having what you do match what you say making sure that in fact you’re building an environment where people do care about one another, where there’s trust, transparency, openness, people are accepted for who they are and you nurture good talent and enable them to grow and if you do that and you create an environment where people are really collaborative and enjoy coming to work, where they’re finding meaning in what they do, where you’re setting high expectations, giving them control, all these human factors are what really drive ultimately the high performing culture and people wanting to follow you because they believe in the environment you’re building and the vision you have. And naturally you’ve got to have a good strategy, right? This whole notion of strategic trust is vitally important because if you have a fun environment, but you really don’t have a good strategy, people are not going to want to be part of it.

Sanjog Aul [00:15:16]:
Can this be humanly possible for a leader sitting up there where he or she does not meet every single soul who belongs to that organization on a regular basis, to be able to convey that, that you care and you are going to do everything that it takes for every individual to grow to the best potential they have and that would in turn result in you basically becoming the leader which everybody wants to follow.

Frank Wander [00:15:50]:
You as a leader. You really can’t in a large organization personally touch everybody. You can communicate with everybody. You can have lots of town hall meetings. You can be seen. There’ll be a vibe about who you are throughout the organization. If you’re a really good leader, there’ll be a positive vibe about who you are that in fact does touch everybody. So indirectly you really do have an influence on everyone in the organization and what they believe.

Frank Wander [00:16:20]:
If you have an exciting strategy and people believe in it, it’s going to create a positive vibe. So you will in fact influence everybody in the organization. And this is ultimately what makes people want to follow you. I would add on to that that if you really do care about the environment and you’re going to build a high performing culture, you are going to understand that there are subcultures that exist and you’re going to make sure those subcultures all align with the vision and the beliefs that you have. And that’s done by having a behavioral model that everybody embraces. And once you do that, not only have you touched the people, but you’ve built a culture that is in the image of what you told them was going to exist. And out of that, people will be excited and will want to follow and they will be part of the organization. Your turnover will go down, workforce productivity goes up, all the good things start to happen.

Sanjog Aul [00:17:15]:
Let’s take a quick break listeners. We’ll be right back. And Frank, let’s look at when we come back is to see what again coming back to that special sauce which is sixth sense that can be developed so that you know when to step in and or prod or coax or do nothing at all. Because while you will try to do things which will convey the message that you care, but you got to get the job done as a leader and meet some goals that business has brought you for. So in order for you to do it, does a leader demote themselves to be a manager for the time being and still possess that sixth sense? Or they can stay where they are and still get the job done. Let’s explore this more listeners when we come back. Please stay tuned.

Sanjog Aul [00:19:51]:
Welcome back. So, Frank, while it’s cool and sexy to save, I’m a leader so I’m going to lead the troops and be the pied piper. However we were brought in, were paid the mega paychecks in order to get certain things done. Can we remain a leader and still be able to figure out a way to step in and prod or coax or do nothing at all and make that decision at the level of abstraction that we are at most times as a leader?

Frank Wander [00:20:25]:
There is a, there is a transition in everybody’s, every leader’s life and the transition is from managing to leading. Managers are involved in the day to day. They’re overseeing what the individuals are doing. They’re helping managing and push things forward. They’ve got their hands in the work a bit. Leaders are really above that. They’re motivating the people, creating a great talent infrastructure, creating a great strategy, doing an org design that brings out the best in people, creating joint responsibility with the business, doing all the things a leader has to do. And you know, a leader does not jump in and really get their hands into the detail work that the people should be doing.

Frank Wander [00:21:10]:
You know, it’s the equivalent of a conductor of an orchestra jumping down and grabbing the first violin and beginning to play some notes. That means there’s no conductor anymore on the podium and it’s a disaster if you do that. So, you know, as a leader, you build the skills to help people succeed. There are people who end up in the wrong roles and you either help them move to the right role or in fact, you sometimes have to replace them because they may very well have chosen a career that they’re not well suited for. That’s a bigger problem, I think. You know, people don’t really get enough help finding out what they’re good at through all those years of school and what their aptitudes and capabilities are and what interests them and you have to survive. So people do end up in careers they’re not well suited for and they’ve got to move on and try to find what they’re good at and that’s a very humane thing to do.

Frank Wander [00:22:00]:
At the end of the day, leaders are like conductors and they don’t pick up the guitars, the violins and play them.

Sanjog Aul [00:22:08]:
So typical leadership coaching and, or training or academies that are there, they try to say that this coaxing and prodding or going out there and doing an intervention is supposed to be job of a manager. Would you say that is true, given the demanding times that we are in? And if I were to just spend my time in building my team of lieutenants who are essentially managing those different projects, etc, then I will not have to come down to that level where I am literally at the ground level trying to deal with these things. So prodding and coaxing by design looks like you are not letting people do what they’re supposed to do.

Frank Wander [00:22:58]:
I would break it into a little more finely grained view. There’s two sets of activities as a leader. There are activities that you’re very involved in as a leader that you have your hands in and you own those, especially as a CIO. So you’re very involved in the organizational design that is your responsibility. You want to give everybody a voice so people buy into it, you want to gather all the input. There’s a way to actually do an organizational design where the organization is engaged, but at the end of the day, you own getting that done.

Frank Wander [00:23:29]:
You own driving the planning around the talent infrastructure, you should have a workforce plan, you should know where you’re going. You own the strategy, yes, you’re going to engage everybody in doing bits and pieces of it, but you own pulling that strategy together and you’ve got your hands very much in that. You own the governance model and yes, once again, you want everybody involved in different pieces of that governance model because it’s ultimately about collaboration and how decisions get made. But at the end of the day, you’re going to set the governance structure up and those governance mechanisms will be run mostly by other people.

Frank Wander [00:24:03]:
So all of those things you’ve got to do. But when it comes to projects and what people are working on day to day under, you know, you do get involved in that. You provide resources that they need. You make sure they understand where they have to go. They have to ultimately control it and get it done. You’ve got to remove roadblocks that’s very important. That’s about enabling them to be successful

Frank Wander [00:24:26]:
but you don’t jump in and start getting involved in their detailed design and their coding and everything else. If you do, you’re getting pulled down into the muck and mire and you’re not leading, you’re not doing your job especially if you have a bigger place.

Sanjog Aul [00:24:41]:
Would you say that in a situation where we have teams who are experiencing problem and you want it to be that progressive parent who always would jump in at the first sign and go and try to help instead, like to have them struggle not in a negative way, but in a healthy way try to figure it out. Would you say if you did that and you were the leader, would you be seen as someone who wants to remain aloof? Or would it be because that person who’s struggling would welcome the help, but then they would never grow? If you just went at the first sign of them struggling, how would you manage that?

Frank Wander [00:25:25]:
First of all, I think you want to be able to detect the early warning signs that there is trouble. And it’s really not just dates and other things. Right. That are slipping. You know, there’s the famous thing that, you know, these major programs are green, green, green, green and then they turn red. So obviously in all those cases there were very many early warning signs. And much of it comes from having an open and transparent dialogue in your organization where people begin to surface issues early. They don’t surface issues early.

Frank Wander [00:25:58]:
You have a cultural problem. But getting down to now, the level of when you detect something is wrong, to what degree do you get in involved? Yeah, I think you want to get involved, but you want to help them find a solution. So you know, I would go in and begin to ask a lot of questions. Have you thought about this? What do you think we should do? You know, there may be things that are in their way that they really just can’t solve. You know, you may have a person who’s an introvert in a role that really requires an extrovert, has to work heavily with the business and it may be very, very difficult for them to do that. So you’ve got to find out what the problem is. Sometimes there is an individual not well suited to a particular function and you can move them somewhere else and bring somebody else in who’s perhaps got the skills needed to do something. But no, I wouldn’t get involved and solve their problem.

Frank Wander [00:26:50]:
I would have them eventually find a solution if it is something they need to solve.

Sanjog Aul [00:26:56]:
How would you in the first place know that the problem is there or it’s about to happen? Now that’s what we’re talking as sixth sense. What’s the magic there?

Frank Wander [00:27:08]:
Well, some of it is, you know, people. It’s interesting when you have teams of people, if you ask a lot of questions and you have an open and transparent environment, the truth comes out. And if you notice somebody becoming very uncomfortable with a line of questioning, I’ll keep asking questions and the truth will in fact come out and they will tell you, especially if you don’t run a blame oriented culture and they feel that you are there to help them. If you have an environment where they believe you are there to help them be successful, things are going to come out very quickly. If they’re in an environment where they’re apart, and if that part isn’t working well, that part’s going to be disposed of. It’s not going to come out very quickly. And you really need a sixth sense to see what’s going on. Now, I never built an environment where people were parts, so I don’t do that.

Frank Wander [00:27:59]:
I believe leaders who build environments where people are parts, they don’t have a sixth sense and therefore they’re not aware of all of these human factors that drive productivity. And they’re the ones who have green programs that turn red at the end because they built the wrong environment. And ultimately they’re accountable.

Sanjog Aul [00:28:22]:
Interestingly, when you talk about all of these aspects, people who are looking for you to help, and I come back to that original point, they may not even know, or they should not need to know that somebody is there, but they should have that feeling like what we have for God Almighty. I’m a believer, so I know that entity exists. And they feel that it is a safe haven and that gives them the confidence, and that’s why they work towards success and work towards making things happen. Wouldn’t that be beautiful, to create that environment? And if, yes, if that can be created, what would it take? Because you’re not talking to them, but they know that you’re there.

Frank Wander [00:29:14]:
Well, they know that you’re there to help. This is the key difference. You’re not there to find people doing things wrong. You’re there to help them do things right. You’re there when things go well to make sure they get the credit. You don’t take credit for anything. Even when I had an awful lot to do with the success of what was happening because of the environment I created and everything, my people got all the credit. And the further I went into the background, the better the place would run because they were getting credit.

Frank Wander [00:29:46]:
They were highly animated, they felt motivated, they felt good about the place they wanted to come to work. They knew if they worked hard, they were going to get a reward. You know, that level of motivation is critically important and most importantly then, and this is the answer is having an environment where they can come to you. If you’ve got to be finding all the problems all the time, then you’ve got an environment where A, they probably don’t trust you enough and B, they’re not comfortable being open and transparent and seeking help and I always wanted an environment where people could come in and talk to me and if they came to me with a problem I would always say thank you for coming to me with that and then I would try to help them fix it and that is the least painful or most pain free way of running an organization. People know about problems early on and if you can have them speak up, you can deal with those early before it’s much more difficult to fix.

Sanjog Aul [00:30:48]:
Let’s take a quick break listeners. When we come back Frank, how about exploring leading up? Because today especially the role of IT is pervasive. We are touching literally every part of the organization and even your management. Executive management has started looking at this function and the related leaders in a different light, but the way you wanted the rest of the organization to follow. If you could also make that happen with the executive management, then that’s a pretty good position to be in and you can create a lot of value for the organization. So that sixth sense do you think should have a different flavor for the people who you manage or who report to you, who you influence below you in terms of your grade versus what you do with the management? Please stay tuned listeners. We’ll be right back and explore.

Sanjog Aul [00:33:36]:
Welcome back. So Frank, let’s talk about leading up and creating that flavor of sixth sense. To have such an environment created, even where the management would want to follow you and look up to you, is that possible? And if yes then how do we do this?

Frank Wander [00:33:56]:
It’s not only possible, it’s absolutely critical. If you look at how it is changing, and it’s changing very, very rapidly. This whole notion of everything as a service, and I think everything as a service is exaggeration, but I think the notion of competitive necessity as a service, which is the things that aren’t core to your business is not an exaggeration. All of that is moving to the cloud you’ve got social, you’ve got mobile, you’ve got big data, you’ve got data scientists and talent analytics. You know, with all of these competitive necessities beginning to move out to the cloud, leaders, you know, the leaders of the corporation, really, they may not see all of this. They know a lot of what’s going on but in IT, as a CIO, you have a purview and an understanding that they don’t have

Frank Wander [00:34:46]:
and in order to be credible in the organization, you’re going to have to be successful, you’re going to have to onboard and you’re going to have to deliver. So typically, when I come into an organization, the first thing I want to do is stabilize the environment and this is the credibility building phase you’re typically there because something wasn’t going well. There are jobs where people retire and it’s running well, but in many cases, you know, somebody’s been let go and they’re not happy. So you’ve got to really listen and I think that’s one of the five senses. You’ve got to listen and understand what’s going on.

Frank Wander [00:35:21]:
You’ve got to look at the social dynamic of the organization, that sixth sense of really, who’s got power, what are the unsaid things that you need to know. All that tacit knowledge, you’ve got to pick that up and you’ve got to establish credibility by stabilizing the environment, then optimizing it. If you come in and start talking about all of these big strategies that you’re going to implement and you’re focusing on that and the systems aren’t up and aren’t working and you’ve got problems with the vendors, you’re going to lose credibility immediately. Right? People don’t want to hear that. They want things to work and run. They need what they need done done. You’ve got to get the basics working and working well, and then you can move on to putting those strategies in place and if you’ve built credibility, you should be able to show what the business value of these things are and to win over the business.

Frank Wander [00:36:13]:
And that’s vitally important and it’s based on this credibility and trust.

Sanjog Aul [00:36:20]:
Now, leader, and let’s take the example of an IT leader because we are CIO talk radio. So let’s talk about that.

Frank Wander [00:36:27]:
Sure.

Sanjog Aul [00:36:27]:
Your, your role as a CIO or I’m talking to all CIOs who may listen to this or other leaders is to develop that sixth sense. Create that organization where they like to follow the leader and then start doing right things for the right reasons. So in short, they could become leaders in their own right, wherever they are in the organization. And given the tenure of you as a leader, if it’s just four years or less, when you move on, anyone else comes, they make that path easier so that every person who comes in is not reinventing the wheel. And if say a bad leader comes or somebody who’s hired who doesn’t have that sixth sense, that person either is helped by the team. So no longer you are the only one responsible, but the rest of the organization can help this leader become the best they can be or they are managed out timely so that we are not pulled back into that same ground state where somebody else will have to now come use their sixth sense to build an organization back up. So one is to say, okay, I’ll be great, I will do this great work and build that organization. But how to make it resilient so that it is there for good?

Frank Wander [00:37:53]:
The question is how to create an organization that outlasts the leaders. Now, this is not just really an IT question, but this is really about corporations and their durability. And that comes down to having a culture, a shared culture that’s documented most cultures and I do cultural design work and help companies build high performing cultures. Culture is completely misunderstood. Most cultures are a product of default. It is whatever that leader’s behavior is, whatever they say, whatever they believe. Even if the people on top have a set of values that they’re espousing, oftentimes you’ll see that their behavior doesn’t match it.

Frank Wander [00:38:32]:
More importantly, they don’t know and understand what subcultures exist under them because in many cases there really aren’t the tools and the visibility into the culture. Culture is what makes it enduring. It’s a set of shared behaviors that are documented that everybody embraces, where the organization itself is accountable for enforcing them. These are all high performing behaviors that lead to collaboration and innovation. And that is how you A make sure people are a cultural fit when you’re hiring them that’s B how you ensure that the culture lasts beyond the leader who is in charge. New people coming on top may very well change or adapt the culture. Hopefully they do it in a positive way.

Frank Wander [00:39:11]:
But if in fact you’ve got a defined cultural model as a corporation and people need to fit in it, when a CIO comes in, who they are supposed to become and how they’re supposed to behave should be defined so they can embrace it and that way you don’t have that churn and destruction that takes place in many companies today.

Sanjog Aul [00:39:29]:
Now, I as a leader should ideally get some breathing room. And after some time I should be building that organization which kind of heals itself as I said, resilient and you said even outlasting the leader, which is awesome. Now what you just mentioned, in terms of that culture, how much of that essentially can be insulated from any new person who assumes that leadership role?

Frank Wander [00:39:57]:
If the individual that you’re hiring is the CIO and we’re talking about CIOs here, they own the culture of that division. And if the culture has not been defined and there isn’t a set of behaviors that are expected out of an individual coming in, it’s very easy for them to quickly destroy the culture. And it won’t be resilient because it’s going to take and take its shape after that individual. Now, ideally, if a company has a culture and they want people to be a cultural fit so the culture doesn’t change, then they have a means of interviewing people and doing a behavioral interview to ensure that the individual they’re hiring is a good cultural fit and he’s going to embrace and improve and continue to keep the culture an enduring one and I think that’s the difference it’s whether this is documented. Can they hire people who are cultural fit and do people understand what the culture it is when they come on board? In most cases, culture is not a product of design. So we’re talking about, you know, a small percentage of high performing companies where they have healthy cultures and they hire for fit.

Sanjog Aul [00:41:12]:
Let’s come back to the sixth sense. What specific areas where you feel leaders fail or fall short of demonstrating and developing the sixth sense?

Frank Wander [00:41:27]:
You know, there’s a somewhat even deeper question, and it relates to the moment in time we’re in. You know, we are still living in the shadow of the industrial era where people were nothing more than interchangeable parts. We have an educational system that was designed to make people good factory workers. People are taught to think, but they’re not taught to feel. If people don’t have a sixth sense. It’s not because, in fact, you know, they really failed in an area it’s because as a society, it hasn’t really been valued. The whole notion of feeling an emotion is

Frank Wander [00:42:05]:
is still barely talked about. I mean, Daniel Goleman’s book EQ came out in 1996. That is really very, recent. I think an awful lot of people in leadership have never read it and, you know, we’re slowly going to that inflection point where companies are seeking innovation and they’re going to begin to value leaders who understand the human factors. If you want to develop a sixth sense, you need to begin to become aware of all of those unseen things going on around you. And people can develop it by a beginning to go back to their office after they’ve been in a meeting and take note of things. You know, did you go to the meeting? And are two people who should be working closely together on a project sitting at opposite ends of the table? And is that a pattern? It may just be that they don’t get along at all.

Frank Wander [00:42:58]:
You know, I would go around and try to get a feel for the mood and climate in different parts of the organization, and I would keep note of it and if I found a part of the organization was really feeling a little bit more down and uninspired and unenergetic, I would tend to walk around and try to find out what was going on and what the root problem was. I would maintain a social map in my office, which is a way of looking at the strength of relation and I not only do that between organizational entities, looking at organizational entities as personality types, where I tried to get an understanding of that social, kind of the social climate but in fact, I would also, for individuals and things, begin to understand, at least for the ones below me, to what degree were they working together? And I would try to do things that would create a much more socially cohesive environment over time, intervene where I had to. If they make it a practice to write down stuff, notice it, think about it, they have a sixth sense. It’s just undeveloped

Frank Wander [00:44:01]:
and they can develop it, and they can develop it to be much better. They can read books on nonverbal language. What Everybody is Saying by Navarro is a good book. He was a profiler for the FBI and that goes into really all of these nonverbal cues and you can read it and try to apply it. So there’s things they can do. They should develop them,

Frank Wander [00:44:26]:
they can develop them. You’re just in a society that hasn’t valued that till now.

Sanjog Aul [00:44:32]:
So you’re saying there’s a fundamental flaw which is more of not a deterrent, but it is not a motivation or organization, is not putting emotional or being emotional as one of the performance criteria which a leader will be measured on and that’s why people who are basically, it’s a nature thing that’s part of their nature. They’re the ones who are working well and are able to build that sixth sense and are true leaders and rest of them nobody is telling or nobody’s motivating them to develop that sixth sense. Is that what essentially, in short, you’re saying?

Frank Wander [00:45:08]:
That’s exactly right, Sanjog. It’s not valued now, if you take a look at companies that I think do understand the importance of talent and embrace the human factors, you really begin to see that there’s two types of companies. There are companies that I think represent the next generation of where corporations are going, where talent is highly valued. The founder of the World Economic Forum said talentism is the new capitalism and I believe that it was in fact large capital enterprises, large capital equipment that were the hallmark of the industrial era. You could think of automotive in this era, it’s talent, it’s the mind and emotion and unlocking that so that you could get the full talent potential of your investment back.

Frank Wander [00:46:00]:
And that’s the difference and that is the era we’re heading into. You look at the SaaS, the Googles, the WL Gores and others who get it. These are the companies that build high performing environments and they do a lot of things that really do unlock the human factors of productivity and innovation, even if they don’t call it that. In fact they are and there’s 100 years of research, you know, into human factors. There’s the burgeoning branch of neuroscience where people beginning to understand, understand the human equipment a lot better and leaders are going to have to become as expert at managing the talent or human infrastructure as they are at managing their computers and networks.

Frank Wander [00:46:44]:
If I ask them, tell me about itil. The CIO could go on and on about ITIL. If I said name six human factors, they probably wouldn’t be able to do it.

Sanjog Aul [00:46:56]:
Let’s take a quick break listeners, when we come back, look at some of the things that while you are at a leadership level, but then there are other people who are step up candidates or people who aspire to get to the next level. Perhaps this sixth sense development could be used to some degree in their current role. But as this is a work in progress for many people, how about taking a head start or giving these people a head start. So what can be done by people at the top? Besides of course developing and honing their own sixth sense to get the folks who are almost their successors or people who are identified who are supposed to assume leadership position to start building that sixth sense. What would be a roadmap to doing that? Please stay tuned listeners. We’ll be right back and explore.

Sanjog Aul [00:49:35]:
Welcome back. So step up candidates. People who aspire to be leaders and maybe they are leaders in their own right, but they are not fully cooked in terms of developing their sixth sense. What would you go about doing in that regard?Be at the top.

Frank Wander [00:49:50]:
In terms of helping

Sanjog Aul [00:49:54]:
Developing these people? Yes.

Frank Wander [00:49:58]:
Yeah, I would. I would coach them. I would explain to them that there are all of these human factors that they have to become aware of. I would frankly give them my book to read and explain to them that this book was written so that in a sense, part of it at least is an operator’s manual for the human infrastructure and they need to think of it that way. There is an operator’s manual for the human infrastructure, these are the human factors, there is a culture, they need to understand what culture is

Frank Wander [00:50:27]:
I would explain it to them. You know, culture is the collective programming of the minds, of the people and behavior is the programming language and you’ve got to go out and you’ve got to program this organization. Your behavior matters and you got to understand these tools you’ve been given. Right? This talent is a tool and Although many people today operate as if talent is an expense, and certainly there are talent expenses and talent assets, I think we can all agree to that but when this giant wave goes out and all of the physical infrastructure and the business systems that people use to run the company, meaning HR, finance, legal, matter management, on and on down the line, when all of those move into the cloud, they are going to be left with their core business systems and the talent expenses and they’re going to wake up and say, oh no, these are assets and they’re going to have to learn to grow assets. That means they’re going to have to learn the human factors, they’re going to have to learn to build a high performing culture, they’re going to have to learn workforce planning, they’re going to have to think more strategically, they’re going to have to still, by the way, manage expenses and do all the things they do today. They’re going to have to manage the vendors that are running a lot of these pieces of the infrastructure that are competitive necessity.

Frank Wander [00:51:47]:
I’m not suggesting those go away they don’t. You have to do those, you’re running a business but at the end of the day, the competitive advantage is going to come from those business systems and the talent infrastructure and if you don’t know how to build a high performing talent infrastructure, you’re not going to make it. You are going to be the legacy leader that gets washed out with the legacy infrastructure and as you’re babbling about ITIL and uptimes and everything else, the Chief Digital Officer and others will be eating your lunch because they’ll be sitting there at the table talking about all the things that matters, the strategy and what we need to do and the talent and how we’re going to get talent in here who knows how to really do mobile and social and everything else.

Frank Wander [00:52:27]:
And I think CIOs have to wake up. Companies are looking for strategic CIOs, they’re looking for people who could build the workplace of tomorrow and they’ve got to stop focusing on the workplace of today. You’ve got to have that down, nailed down, running well, stabilized, optimized. But you better be building the workplace of tomorrow and shedding those things that are competitive necessity.

Sanjog Aul [00:52:48]:
With multiple generations coexisting today and that sixth sense development, of course it seems like that it will be key for any leaders who are going to be looking to be successful and be valued in an organization. Would you see the DNA of how we had the baby boomers versus Gen X versus Genoa, Any difference among those or any different techniques to get them to where they can best be in terms of sixth sense development.

Frank Wander [00:53:15]:
You know, I think the baby boomers have really the least sixth sense of anybody. And I think that the millennials that are coming up probably have the most. They’re more socially aware, they’ve been dealing with social environments. People say, in fact, oh, look, they’re always instant messaging, they’re on tools. They don’t know anybody. They actually do care about one another. They care probably less about some of the trappings that go with the job than the quality of the job and the environment that they work in. Right.

Frank Wander [00:53:44]:
They want to work on something interesting. So the human factors are in fact going to be very motivational for them, creating environments where they’re given control, which is a very well known human factor documented since the 1950s. And that’s why, in fact, if you give people like a day, a week to go off and work on things that they find interesting when they’re given that level of control and they can pursue interest, which means it’s tied to their aptitude, and they’re more likely to be emotionally connected to it, great things begin to happen and I think the millennials tie into that environment very well. They want to be appreciated. You know, it’s not just a job. They want to do something interesting, which means it matches their aptitude. You’ve got to set high expectations for them.

Frank Wander [00:54:24]:
You know, the Gen Xers are kind of in the middle, right? You’ve got ones that are close to the boom and 19, you know, born 1965 and after boomers are 46 to 64. And then you’ve got the millennials, the ones who are kind of closer to the millennials. So they’re a blend, you know, given that they’re situated, you know, somewhere on this spectrum and that is the environment.

Sanjog Aul [00:54:52]:
One final give me top three words that people who are leaders, they should be keeping in mind as they go about developing their sixth sense and for the people who they lead.

Frank Wander [00:55:04]:
The top three words, I would say the top three words are be aware of all of the nonverbal cues around you. Nothing could be more important. Most communication is nonverbal because that’s how humans as a species evolved over millions of years without speech and we don’t know the exact date speech arose no one knows. It was very late in the evolution so become aware of that. I think that’s actually vitally important.

Frank Wander [00:55:32]:
Secondly, you know, strategic trust is critical for leaders and you build strategic trust by having a very clear strategy that is going to lead the organization to a good place and the sixth sense is kind of knowing how all of these different trends in it are going to shake out and knowing in fact that you are going to lead them into an environment where you get the fact that talent matters and you are going to build an innovative organization and a high performing culture and you are going to basically say that it matters. Lastly, I would say caring nothing is more important than caring about the people. It’s fundamental to human existence. We’re social animals. We exist on this planet because we weren’t the fiercest, the fastest, but we were social animals that cohesively could survive in a tough environment. So care about the people, show you care, nurture them, become the servant leader that’s going to set you apart from the others and more or less ensure that as the tide goes out, you’re one of the survivors.

Sanjog Aul [00:56:35]:
On behalf of the show and our listeners, I’d really like to thank you Frank for sharing your thoughts on how we can help develop the sixth sense for leadership.

Frank Wander [00:56:45]:
Thank you very much. Great show. Super topic. I loved it.

Sanjog Aul [00:56:50]:
Listeners, please like us on Facebook, search for CIO Talk Radio and be sure to follow us on Twitter. Thank you again for listening to CIO Talk Radio. This is Sanjog Aul your talk show host till next week. Take care and God bless.

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