In this turbulent and dynamically shifting business climate, leaders have business results to deliver, handle competing priorities, a need to sustain a conducive culture and foster courage and clarity among teams. But leadership gurus also preach taking an approach of vulnerability, empathy, and care. So, should leaders use their heads or hearts to be effective?

Contributors

• • Nizar Darweesh, Chief Human Resources Officer (CHRO), Fawaz Alhokair Group Fashion Retail
  • Anil Kumar Misra, Chief Human Resources Officer, JioMart – New Commerce Grocery, Reliance Retail

Transcript

Sanjog Aul [00:00:00]:
Hello and welcome to CTN. To learn more about the show, please visit ciotalknetwork.com. Now, today’s topic is Should You Use Your Head Or Heart As A Leader? So why we are having a discussion. So in this turbulent and rather dynamically shifting business climate, a lot of leaders have said that they have business results to deliver. They almost always have multiple competing priorities. At the same time, they have to build a culture. They need to be like a Pied Piper, truly showing that they have the leadership material and they also have to show a great amount of courage and build some clarity among the teams but at the same time, we also have various leadership gurus and pundits who say we also have these leaders to show vulnerability, to show empathy and care, which is the softer side of a human.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:12]:
So is this truly a situation where a leader has to either choose one or both? Is it about the head or the heart? What should a leader use to truly be effective and to discuss this, I have with me Nizar Darweesh, Chief Human Resource Officer, Fawaz Al Hokair Group, Fashion Retail. Hey, Nizar. How are you, sir?

Nizar Darweesh [00:01:39]:
Hi, Sanjog. I’m fine. How are you doing?

Sanjog Aul [00:01:43]:
Very good. Thanks so much for joining us here and we also have Anil Kumar Mishra, who is the Chief Human Resource Officer for Jiomart New Commerce Grocery for Reliance Retail. Hey, Anil, how’s life, sir?

Anil Kumar Misra [00:01:59]:
Hi, Sanjog, I’m good. Thanks for having me here in this podcast.

Sanjog Aul [00:02:05]:
Great to have you as well, Anil. So, Nizar, let’s start with you. We are trying to make sure that the businesses today, they are able to become relevant and respond and quickly adapt to all the changes that are happening, which means we got to be very sharp at the leadership level and you are able to always be very keenly observing what’s going on and on the other hand, what are the business objectives when you’re doing all of this and as I laid out in the topic itself, given the environment today, can you even afford to bring heart into the picture?

Nizar Darweesh [00:02:49]:
I think it’s very important to have this combination between head and heart for any leader and after pandemic, I do believe that using the heart become more important because now everybody is talking about the employee will be as one of the major priorities for 2023 and the years to come, I think the leader must strike that balance between head and heart and when you talk about human resources, for example, the function that I am leading, I cannot afford to be completely a head leader or a heart leader. I have to be able to use both because I am managing human capital. So it’s very important that in every business decision that I make, even if it is something very dying like bunches or strategic planning, there will be always an emotional part or a hard factor that needs to be considered. So I think there will be always a space to bring the heart into the leadership but the split between head and heart will be the factor draw to determine

Nizar Darweesh [00:04:15]:
and I don’t think that there will be a contradiction between using the heart and attaining the business objectives.

Sanjog Aul [00:04:26]:
I agree with you Nizar. So conceptually, yes but then Anil, I’d like to ask you when the time or times are tough, right then you are being watched as a leader, your company is being watched. There may be the stock prices, there may be other business realities which are hitting hard on the overall business and it’s the way it operates. At that point you got to be able to very logically get through things and people traditionally say hard can get in the way of logic. What have you seen on the ground when you see leaders operate, the ones who truly are able to carry the company through turbulent times?

Anil Kumar Misra [00:05:18]:
I think that’s a great question, Sanjog. Thanks for asking that. I strongly believe it should never head or heart, it’s both, irrespective of the times that we go through. I’ll give you an example. Often we say that material resources market money, which one is more critical, everybody says now here is a difficult time, challenging time

Anil Kumar Misra [00:05:44]:
and I strongly believe true test of character for a leader is when things are not favoring you, when there are adverse time, how did you behave? People remember and that will go a long way in building institution. So as an HR lead, any people leader for that matter, it’s always whether I should be focusing on short term gain or should also be equally concerned about my long term losses. Now coming back to head and heart, I’ll give you an example. Of course I work for a business organization. It’s not a charitable. So your question about stakeholder management, answering to board members, looking at stock market, all of that is relevant but at the same time, irrespective of the function that I belong to, can I be a little more humane, of course in my head I know let’s say for certain percentage of people I need to manage the mouth.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:06:45]:
That’s a business call for my existence, for my survival of business. If I have to take a hard call, by all means, please go ahead and do that. That’s where I’m playing my professional role and that’s straight I thinking from my head but hard balancing it out meaning can I be a little more empathetic? Can I help them out but can I first jobs their employment elsewhere? Can I refer them to my friend in some other organization who is leading HR and I can request them saying that okay, these are the guys, they are great guys but because business related decision I need to take them out of their current roles but can you help them out? That’s where playing my role of being empathetic and that’s where I’m trying to balance okay head and both balancing them is equally important on one front I’m managing what is good for business for its survival because we are going through tough time. How well I can manage can I go back to those impacted people I will tell them why we are doing certain things. It’s a hard way but people would always understand and appreciate if I communicate if I don’t put in and these are some of the examples of balancing both head and heart. That’s how I look at it Sanjog.

Sanjog Aul [00:08:09]:
So Nizar, I have a question so Anil picked up a good point where suppose when the times are tough you have to lay off your workforce or you have to do any kind of retransmit when somebody is losing their livelihood. Imagine an employee, their mindset and here comes a leader who says I’m so sorry but I have to take food away from your table but trust me, I feel your pain. What is going to go on in that employee’s head that okay, it’s easier said while you’re saying yeah you feel my pain but you really don’t. You don’t know what’s going to happen with my family. Do you really feel that you drop an axe on somebody’s neck and say I’m so sorry I’m forced to do. Is that how leadership works?

Nizar Darweesh [00:09:11]:
I agree with you that this is one of the most difficult moments in a leader’s life. Especially when it gets to as you mentioned to take the foot off the table of that family not person but a leader also must understand that his or her rule includes tough rules and tough decisions and in certain times there should be a sort of an emotional freeze and what do I mean by emotional freeze is that yes you feel the pain but you actually don’t want to do this if you have another option but because you are a leader and this is not about that person, it’s not a personal matter but it’s about an organization and we other hint related matters. Yes, you do feel that pain but you need to get yourself together and you need to remind yourself that my role requires me to face these sort of issues

Nizar Darweesh [00:10:27]:
and there is no, I think contradiction between showing emotions and showing empathy. Saying this is not really something I would like to do in normal cases, but it is what it is and I don’t believe that anything any leader would say in such incident will make the employee feel better because he is seeing it from a completely different angle but from a leadership perspective, there must be times where the leader has to make the split goes much higher towards head than heart and ensure that he or she feels that the humanity as Anil mention into this.

Sanjog Aul [00:11:19]:
So Anil, think of an individual who was growing in a company and you being the CHRO, you definitely understand how performance appraisals work. You try to show that individual or give that individual a feedback of how did they do. So imagine somebody who is a manager. A middle manager who is supposed to get certain things done. You got a certain measure for them and then you try to groom them, train them, help them, coach them, mentor them to figure out a way how they can get things done so that they can fulfill their duties as a mid level manager. Imagine that same person does well and you say, you are ready for the next level and we would like to give you a leadership role and then you turn around and have that person also show a dose of the heart, the empathy and care and other things and you do another performance appraisal on that in person and say you can’t just be doing all things with your head. You also you should do the hard aspect of it because you’re supposed to be a leader.

Sanjog Aul [00:12:32]:
Imagine the same organization training a person who’s a manager and then expecting a totally different output from this individual. Now this person is a human, not a robot that you can reprogram that individual. How do you deal with something like this? Where you are responsible in your role or the organization is responsible for a person to do the best they can in the role they have, but they are also expecting that person to switch their psyche how much of a dose of a head or heart they use depending on the role they are in. What are your thoughts on that?

Anil Kumar Misra [00:13:09]:
Another thing again, that’s an excellent question. Sanjog. My take on that is okay, so long as you are an individual contributor, you have a very limited sphere of influence on your people but the moment you are a people manager, besides running your function, be it sales or be it any product or anything for that matter, the moment you have people accountability. You are expected to develop hard side of things also which are often regarded as soft skills but to my mind they are the life skills. They are not soft skills but if you are good at inspiring people, motivating them, counseling them, mentoring them, then you know your growth trajectory might become little more faster in compared to somebody who struggles to build heart, peace and only things from head.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:14:09]:
As we move up in the organization ladder, I repeat myself balancing out both depending on the situation. It’s a contingency approach. I should be free depending on the need I need to be doing that without of course compromising the humanity aspect which repeatedly we have been talking about. Now what do we do as organizations when we should our people and their readiness to get on to the next level. We look at their consistency level of performance which is predominantly in their functional area. We also take inputs how good they are as a people manager. That feedback we take from peer groups and through 360 degree feedback, so on and so forth. So that you have a holistic view of how good is that incumbent and will he be a role model for rest of the colleagues in that department if we promote him.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:15:07]:
Now if somebody is a rock star performer but struggles when it comes to demonstrating behaviors from heart standpoint, then you know, we put them into some special project.

Sanjog Aul [00:15:21]:
So do you think.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:15:23]:
High potalent and we call it program.

Sanjog Aul [00:15:27]:
No, so I definitely see that the point that you were making Anil, My question is can you really have an academy for an individual to learn how to use their heart?

Anil Kumar Misra [00:15:42]:
I think it’s difficult to build overnight. Your dominating style is you are people centric and some people are there whose dominating style or preferences people centric being more people, being more humble, being more humane. Some other people completely task oriented. We do have people in both the category and I tend to believe if you run programs, academic programs or some kind of time which is not theoretical, but which is purely dependent on let’s say appreciative inquiry method or coaching and counseling or mentoring method where you don’t give them theoretical input but you observe in it. We call it a 10, 20 and 70 principle. 10 is only theoretical input, 20 is special project and 70% is all job through special projects through, observations, of course the pace of change might be little longer, but certainly those kind of a program that helps.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:16:48]:
Sanjog.

Sanjog Aul [00:16:50]:
No, this is very good input, sir. Imagine you had someone who by design was a logical thinker, that’s great but unlike where you work on a person’s ability to think logically and using their head most of the time by practice, by giving them scenarios, you sharpen that capability. What would you do to an individual who was by nature lose most of their head and now you need to introduce the heart into the picture. What would you do for a person to suddenly start mellowing down and start using that other part they have never experienced and especially something which is hard, which is more emotion driven. If a person doesn’t have that natural in it and you cannot fake being emotional, you cannot fake being thinking from the heart. How do you develop something like that and what have you done in that regard and what challenges did you face when you were trying to groom someone to develop their heart side?

Nizar Darweesh [00:17:58]:
That’s a great angle of looking at it and the way that I have dealt with it is that I have attacked the perception itself because let’s go back to the root of looking at heart leadership as not so good aspect of leadership because the idea of bringing the heart into workplace leadership traditionally has been seen as a soft and weak approach that undermines business focus on a profit. Okay and this is why people think using the heart is not a good aspect of leadership and leaders should be always logical and using their head and get emotional at all times because they are expected just to use their heads. So I went against that perception and discussed this with people who are by need. They tend always to use their hearts and remind them that business is having different elements.

Nizar Darweesh [00:19:08]:
So there’s the process, they are the systems, but they are the people, okay and we need to deal with people from a human perspective and that requires us to use our hearts not all times, but according to what the situation requires and in a way that not necessarily taking our focus off track when it comes to business. So one of the initiatives that I have implemented in one of the organization I worked for is that we created that concept of people manager. We were calling any person who has a team, any leader who has a team, a people manager,

Nizar Darweesh [00:19:53]:
okay,

Nizar Darweesh [00:19:54]:
and we were conducting training programs to emphasize the importance of considering people and emotions and heart into the equation because it is required from you as a leader. So for example, if you are a leader, even engineering department, where everything goes by math and by formulas and by facts, but still you are leading a team of engineers and you will come to a time when you are going to discuss performance issues. They will have problems to talk to you about and you need to show your MPC. You need to get them to feel that you are not considering them as just machines or tools. So There is no escape in the real life from using your heart and by opening up this sort of conversation with people who tend to use their heart by, their head, sorry most of the time or they don’t think actually they need to use it. We started to see lots of changes in how leaders approach different aspects with a bit of fusing their hearts in an evolving way.

Sanjog Aul [00:21:16]:
Let’s take a quick break listeners. We’ll be right back and when we come back, Anil, I have this question for you. Where when a business is looking for results, they are looking for results and they want it yesterday. There is a sense of urgency and on the other hand, unless otherwise there is a huge focus on an organization building leaders. Especially in such times such as what we are experiencing today, there will not be as much patience that let us have this person build leaders and do things. They want immediate results. If every business is trying to survive and then be profitable and deal with these testing times, how do you keep alive that fire that we need leaders to lead with heart and they have to build a big culture and everything else because that will also perceived, if not in actuality it can be perceived as it’s going to slow things down because you’re trying to do things which are not directly business related. So how do you get that additional runway. Who do we have to go and convince at the top that hey, I’ll get you the results but wait additional six months because we are trying to take care of the people and their well being and we have to lead with the heart as well.

Sanjog Aul [00:22:42]:
Please stay tuned listeners. We’ll be right back.

Sanjog Aul [00:23:49]:
Welcome back. So Anil, when we are trying to get the results delivered yesterday, which is at the earliest possible, how do we make a case in front of the management that it is not in our best interest to just use a bulldozer to get through to the end results? Trampling over people’s head. We need to be empathetic even though it may take a little bit more time when your company’s existence is at stake.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:24:23]:
So Sanjog, I strongly believe that first thing I would really want to do with management is go there and explain them that leadership development is not a two minute instant noodle and undoubtedly we must need to invest on them and it’ll take some time. It cannot be changed overnight. Now certain elements in my mind what I strongly believe would really help in making the transition would be every organization has got certain values and they call it culture, organization, culture, nuances for example, respect or empathy is a value. I cannot develop that overnight saying that hey, so far you have been only thinking from head. There is a need and the business is so dynamic that you need to inculcate this habit overnight or maybe in one quarter and produce result. It will not happen overnight.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:25:26]:
Probably that’s a wrong expectation to have but what we could do is can we make tiny beginning maybe baby step one at a time. Let’s share respecting. So treat people the way you would like to be treated is a core way of working. So how do you make sure or you practice over a period of time working in a group. Let’s say the tiny example if somebody is I have a organization and I have a team strength of 40,000 people in my current role. So 200 people, 300 people, their birthday is today. Do I need to send an industrialized mailer wishing them or to the extent possible, if people on the floor can I walk up to them, can I treat them? Will that not go a long way in building relations and similarly core values which will really help us out in building an institution

Anil Kumar Misra [00:26:27]:
and if I make an initiative today and help those people to live those value every day and in each and every way then to my mind we are on the right track and I cannot afford to be impatient because the business dynamics are shrink all around us changing strictly and hence I cannot demand that show me result in heart pace. If people on the feet. I think that’s a good win for me and that’s a quick win for me and that should create hope in the minds of leadership members. That’s how I look at it, Sanjog.

Sanjog Aul [00:27:01]:
So Anil, the way you explained it, you picked up like and then it was an important example like a small one where somebody birthday and you walk up to them and you wish them. So I’m assuming in such cases nobody in the management would frown and they would encourage it but here we are talking about some sweeping changes in the way you got people who need to be given some more rope given the situation that they are in or there are a lot of people who are otherwise good performers, even though the company might be in dire straits but you should take a more empathetic view when larger amount of time, larger amount of resources and energy are at stake. That’s where the predicament comes or that’s where the true colors of what the executive management thinks and does, which demonstrates whether you have leaders leading with heart or head or both.

Sanjog Aul [00:27:57]:
So for a smaller example, I’m sure there would be no one pushing back but if you wanted a company which shows that it really cares, I’m sure you have to do a lot more and the question I had was primarily for such situations where some major decisions are to be taken and if that was the case, what would you do if you were to go back to your CEO and say, I want you guys to not forget leading with the heart because it has a lot of value and there you’re either stock price was at stake or a division or the whole company’s existence was at stake. How would the conversation become any different and how would you make them to keep thinking about the heart when survival instincts are kicking in? That was the point I was trying to ask.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:29:00]:
Sure, so Sanjog, okay, the birthday example was probably very common and very simple one but let’s talk about performance management. Let’s say everybody deserves to know how they are, how they can move from point A to point B in there career. Now, as a manager, I had the option, okay, this is what we discussed six months back and this is how you have performed and hence I’m giving you a rating of 2 on a scale of 4, 4 being exceptionally good and that’s one way straight away from head, I’m thinking, I’m putting it in the moment I consider that every individual deserves to know how they are doing. I need to thank them for their contribution. I need to understand what their aspirations are in career and how can I help them out by answering them to attend a program or by changing their role and so on and so forth.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:29:59]:
If I realize that, if I do not realize that, then certainly it might result into lack of engagement, lack of commitment, higher threshold, and then, the perennial problem of attracting great talent becomes a challenge. On the contrary, if I do that, then, I’m billing, I’m building that trust between the performance manager and performance managee, the employee and the manager here indirectly, those individuals are also learning the nuances of dealing from heart and saying okay, the way I want my career to flourish. I am genuinely interested in your career. So long as you work in this company and hence this is what has gone well. This is where you could have done better and these are the commitments that I am making in order to make you successful in this role and let’s work together as a team. So that’s the difference.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:30:56]:
When I balance, then life becomes easier and slowly we need to sensitize the leadership members and I’m sure business understands the impact stuff. Losing out people constantly having new people hired in the system takes time for them to get into a productivity level. So leadership member would certainly understand such examples Sanjog.

Sanjog Aul [00:31:22]:
So Nizar and I love the word Anil used which is sensitizing. Let’s build on that, Nizar, would you say we will have to do this sensitization process when the times are good for you to be able to reap the benefits of when times are testing or the executive management is expected to be mature enough that no matter how much the survival is at stake, they will stay sensitized to the human element and taking care of the human and if in your CHRO role you are to deal with this, what have you done which has worked for you in making sure that no matter what your company stands on, dealing with heart and taking care of people and keeping the people first has never been jeopardized just because the times were tough.

Nizar Darweesh [00:32:17]:
I do believe that the role of CHRO is not just to follow whatever is being introduced by the executive team or leadership team because that is not the expectation from a CEO or from resident from a CHRO or a VP or HR. I think one of the major roles is to advise the executive committee and agreeing the facts that they may not have considered because they are either used to do things in that way for a long time and I have lived that feeling where you enter a room and you are new to the table and people have been doing the same thing for a long time. The way they look to people, they like to be sharp all the time. The human factor is not one of their major iterations, but it’s a big fault just swallowing the crowd and not doing your beauty by in your painting and getting them to know at the end that using harm is inevitable. Okay, let’s take an example of a company that as you said on stake and they need something to be urgently done and we don’t have time to wait until we get people to be good in using their hearts but I’m giving them I have a role in similar cases and I would always of previous to the table is let’s take a near look at who will it be. What will be taking us actually after this situation.

Nizar Darweesh [00:34:05]:
Is it only money? Can we like push some cash into this, will you be all good? Is it technology, is it or people, is it a combination of those and always whatever solution you brought to the game there will be a people’s aspect of it. Okay and whenever you have people aspect you have hearts. I do believe that thinking the concept and a pragmatic way of handling this to the executive team and getting them to see the future that they may not despite their long experience are seeing it in fundamental arrangement because managing their business at all levels and at all situation will require the executive team and leadership team to always use a combination of head and heart but again it depends on the situation when the heart take the majority or win the head take the majority or there will be like a fair split between the both.

Sanjog Aul [00:35:22]:
Anil when you’ve seen leaders develop and in front of you or people who you inherited and they were developing which specific areas have you seen them struggling the most? Especially when they are trying to develop this perfect pairing or balancing of the head and heart.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:35:41]:
In most of the cases it’s okay that how can I be a little more compassionate. Compassion doesn’t come naturally to most of the leaders by virtue of let’s say if I can pick up the functional let’s say I’ve been driving sales so hard coded numbers. So probably my behavior or my connect outside those numbers is little limited and hence when when somebody asks for can I take a day off? Normally I’m not very sensitive enough and in certain times I heard stories why don’t you take medicine and come to work? So to me those are the elements in the constant pressure of driving numbers. Most of those people they tend to ignore that compassion empathy piece that we have been talking about. That’s one element where I see a fear struggle. Number two would be okay, so I have given feedback what is fun at work? What is employee engagement? Can I also ensure that people get a forum to speak mine? Do I allow people to speak their mind challenge the status quo? These are the things which is considered I think and I’m not generalizing. This is also something which I have seen in my career.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:37:05]:
People who are predominantly while is dominating in aspect and sorry in head aspect more they while doing the transition to heart more of a heart that is where they struggle. So having an aptitude or an approach to listen to people being more compassionate, walking beyond call of duty to help them, even if that’s a personal matter, a family matter, that they are struggling, that is and hence ultimate prisons into poor team building, poor team cohesiveness and hence that is very important and that is what I have seen in my career, people struggling while doing the transition.

Sanjog Aul [00:37:50]:
So, Nizar. Go ahead, Nizar.

Nizar Darweesh [00:37:55]:
One of our duties here at CHR0s also is to get the leadership team to see the impact of leaning too hard on a sort of direct and rational leadership, which is can create a psychologically unsafe workplace and strategically and on the long run, this works the organization strategy in a positive way. Leaning to the extreme of heart only is not good and leaning to completely head also is not good. So the result of going to either extremes need to be very clear to the leadership because this is a consideration that might change their view and approach to an leadership side.

Sanjog Aul [00:38:52]:
So, Nizar, to that point, one is a person might say, okay, I have this limitation or I’m struggling and how much of those struggles do they express? They are basically their own, not a shortcoming, but a struggle at a personal level and how much of those are a function of the kind of environment that they are trying to lead the troops because there could be an overarching culture which may or may not allow this individual to blossom and demonstrate their heart side because they also have sometimes their perception to manage about themselves. What have you seen in that regard? Are people cringing at the idea of showing their heart or the compassionate side because some people might say, oh, this guy, this person is, doesn’t have a backbone of sorts.

Nizar Darweesh [00:39:49]:
Definitely the perception here is the focal point because I haven’t dealt with leaders who have this hard part of their original personality, but when they come to work, they afraid of showing it because the perception that they have in mind that if they show their compassion or empathy or that emotional side of them, they will be seen as souls or not strong enough leaders or they cannot make hard decisions. So it’s all about changing the perception and building a culture within the organization that a good leader is that not leader who always thinking about facts and figures and looking at people as hiccups and we can see this in many organization like that culture that using your heart as a leader doesn’t mean that you are a loved world because I think the main reason that gets people not to strike the balance between head and heart is that they are afraid of going to either extreme. So if they go to getting to be completely high and logical and rational. They will be seen as they are not human in a sense

Nizar Darweesh [00:41:28]:
and if they go to that extreme, they will be seen as very soft and uncapable to lead. So I think that it’s all about bringing the perception into the balanced point where people will be having as leaders will be having the space to express themselves from the heart perspective and the head perspective and showing that there is no contradiction between the two.

Sanjog Aul [00:41:58]:
Anil, this one last question is about the organization’s intent to truly see. If the organization thinks that they have to have leaders who use a good balance of head and heart and this individual is supposed to work on their psyche and develop their skills, et cetera, what specific support can the organization and other people offer this individual or any leader who’s expected to have a good balance in terms of head and heart? What is it that they can be offered because they’re not superhumans. They need the support.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:42:38]:
Sure. So I look at it from two points. Number one, as I said earlier, sensitizing people, the relevance of balancing both hand and heart has to be a nongoing activity. From time to time we need to make them realize the importance of balancing out both. Ignoring one at the cost of other is simply not going to help the business. Number two, besides sensitizing, taking them through certain structured programs, mentoring, coaching sessions if still things do not improve. One way to ensure execution in what has gone well for me in my previous organizations is the moment you try and link it to your performance management system. Sorry if I’m sounding little critical, but we have the balance scorecard which talks about a called people quadrant.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:43:39]:
So no matter which function you belong to, if you are a people manager, if you are a leader leading team, you must need to acumen around attracting, retaining, developing your team. That’s not something which is only confined to your HR team and regularly, maybe every quarterly, every six months, once a year, depending on how I demonstrate behaviors around that my performance is going to be evaluated, my incentives is going to be linked. That’s one probably a little hard way of ensuring that there is a change in the behavior. Trust me, this works the moment you link it to people and leader and their life cycle. Now, I’m not a good enough leader if I am driving number, but in the process of driving number, if my traditional person pays at 70%, 80%, nobody is going to like that and certainly that is not good for business. So how do I make sure all my actions or intentions link to people processes link to the performance management and I had a say there and my variables, my incomes linked to that.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:44:57]:
The moment you do that, people saw subtle changes in their behavior and that’s a great thing one can think of having.

Sanjog Aul [00:45:07]:
Once again, thank you so much, Nizar and Anil, for sharing your insights about how we can have the leaders of today and tomorrow start using a healthy, balanced dose of both head and heart and create the most value for the organization and the people that make up that organization. So thank you so much again.

Nizar Darweesh [00:45:31]:
Thank you Sanjog. Thanks for having me.

Anil Kumar Misra [00:45:36]:
Thanks Sanjog. Wonderful catching up with you Nizar.

Sanjog Aul [00:45:39]:
Thanks again. Listeners please connect with us on social media and subscribe to our podcast. Once again, thank you for listening to CTN. This is your host, Sanjog Aul and till next week, take care and god bless.

Download Podcast

Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, iHeartRadio, SoundCloud, TuneIn, and Stitcher. Find other syndication channels here or search CIO Talk Network podcast on any other app.

Explore More

• • Is Leadership a Team Sport?
  • Achieving a Healthy Team Dynamics for Optimal Results
  • The Sixth Sense of Leadership
  • Building Future Leaders for Hybrid Work Environment
  • Building Teamwork Across the Enterprise
  • How Do You Build and Motivate a High Performance IT Team?
  • Building Honest and Resourceful Teams
  • Building Confidence in Your Team
  • Isn’t IT Still a Team Sport?