To deliver on business promises, CIO needs a core team of lieutenants. They should be a mix of dreamers, analytical thinkers, collaborators, and warriors. When you hired them, they were all seasoned professionals. They had the right skills, experience, and attitude. They were an exact match for the role. And, they were in the right mix. With frequent and ongoing changes, it doesn’t stay that way. How do you keep this inner team relevant?

Contributor

• • Brian Haugabrook, CIO, Valdosta State University

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Transcript 

Sanjog Aul [00:00:55]:

Hello, and welcome to this segment on CTN. To learn more, please visit ciotalknetwork.com. And our topic for today is Keeping the IT Cabinet relevant  . And our guest is Brian Haugabrook, who’s the CIO with the Valdosta State University. Hey, Brian. How are you?

Brian Haugabrook [00:01:11]:

Hey, Sanjog Aul. I’m good. Thank you for having me today.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:14]:

Oh, pleasure is all mine, and it’s interesting. We were just starting to talk about this topic before we went on air, about the things that you’re trying to do with your organization and kind of building a cabinet. And here cabinet doesn’t mean shelves and the wooden or the steel cabinet. We are talking about the leaders, the lieutenants that you wanna bring on board. So tell us a little more.

Brian Haugabrook [00:01:42]:

So at my organization, over the last decade, I’ll say we’ve seen a lot of change. We’ve went from being this service organization to where we were mainly keeping the lights on. People would call IT when your computer breaks or the website goes down or primarily if the Internet goes down, the world stops for everybody. So we were mainly this sort of behind the scenes, respond within a few minutes. When there were new initiatives, IT again played a back role. We waited on our stakeholders to give us a list of requirements. But in today’s world, the role of IT has evolved much more because of the way technology impacts us. Our lives now depend on technology. It’s a critical component to our journey through life. And so with the IT leadership, it’s very important that we evolve as well. We’re no longer just a group that stands behind the scenes, but we’re at the table and we’re engaged. We’re now sort of a partner to our stakeholders, versus the team they call when they need help or when they need us to do something. And so with that, I really look for taking a more proactive approach, having not just myself as CIO, but all of my lieutenants as you call it, being heavily involved and being a part of the conversation. So that requires a different skill set, more importantly, a different mindset in that we’re now part of the organization being successful, versus just supporting them in the efforts that they’re trying to do.

Sanjog Aul [00:03:21]:

And so to that end, like you mentioned that you would have a set of people that you’ll need. And today, what you would like to make your IT cabinet, which is a set of lieutenants who would work with not just the direction but the vision that you set. But that all could change. So the basic premise of this discussion is that for us to really be able to deliver on what the business promises or what the business wants, which keeps changing itself, is by having a few top leaders in our inner team if you will who could be dreamers, analytical thinkers, they could be collaborators, they could be warriors and they could be people who really can take things upon themselves who no one else would want to make it happen. So when you try to bring this mix, it can be a fuzzy science, but then you still need to make that happen and then once you made it happen, you gotta keep it relevant. So that remains the challenge. So to that end, what do you think was your approach to building this whole inner team and the mix that you thought would be appropriate, say, 5 to 10 years ago versus now?

Brian Haugabrook [00:04:33]:

5 to 10 years ago, it was, again, heavy on the technical side. I would say heavy on the infrastructure or the technology. Now what we focus on more is the information side of IT. How the organization uses information is one of the biggest changes that I’ve seen as well as the people that I bring on to my leadership team. And so with that change, not only do we have to become more flexible, but we have to work more as a team approach. Projects in the past 10 years ago, I could assign it to one area whether it was infrastructure, applications, or technical support or tier two services. Whereas now projects involve multiple people from each of those teams in order for that project to be successful. So when I build a leadership team now, I’m really looking for people who can think outside the box, have that strong vision for the future, and what it’s gonna take to be successful, but also having people who are strong managers, who understand the day to day, how to just make things happen and get them done. Because while we are painting this vision and being a part of the vision for the future, we’re still carrying a lot of that work that is infrastructure behind the scenes related. So we still have to keep the lights on, but now we also have to be a strategic partner in painting that vision. With that change means that each of my lieutenants have to be flexible. They must be flexible. They have to understand that every day is gonna be a different challenge and they have to step outside of their comfort zone, especially when it comes to being a part of the campus. One thing I tell all of my direct reports is we should be meeting with our stakeholders more than we meet with outside vendors who are trying to sell us products and services. In the past, if you looked at our IT calendar, you would see different vendors whether it was a phone call, webinar, on-site visit, more than you saw meetings with the key stakeholders around the organization. So again, it’s a different mindset and having people who can have that outreach, be that partnership is very critical. It’s not so much about do they have a history of being in a deep technical role, more so than it is about do they have the knowledge of business process and best business practices to lead an entire organization to success versus just a particular area of technology.

Sanjog Aul [00:07:05]:

So the way you describe at least the expected makeup of the type of skills competencies and experience these people will bring. You mentioned leadership that they should be able to paint a vision and then you also said that the person should be able to manage things to completion. Do you really think we would have such unique animals in the marketplace or are we even developing people to be leaders and managers both or is there a division that you will do or you’ll say, you know what, Brian, that’s you who’s gonna take care of the vision part and you will work towards bringing people who are step up candidates to be a leader, give them a growth path and where their core competencies purely management of getting something done, more like a director versus someone who’s a leader. And that would be the secret sauce to your success. What do you think? Because what you’re asking for could also be risky in what you start setting as expectation for everyone involved in the sense people who are gonna find, including yourself. And such people are few and far between, if at all.

Brian Haugabrook [00:08:12]:

Yes. I look for I wanna have strong leaders, but I also wanna have those strong managers. So when I build my internal IT cabinet, they’re gonna be some individuals who are strong leaders. They may not have that seasoned manager style. But I’m also gonna have people on that team who are strong managers and who enjoy that type of work. They may not aspire to be executive leaders within a division. And I think that’s a benefit. And one reason I like that approach and having both leaders and managers, some of the key managers a part of my team is that they think differently. They have a different approach to how they solve problems. They have a different way of thinking when they come up with new ideas and more importantly, they’ll challenge each other. You’ll have a really constructive criticism. You’ll have positive conflict and the outcome of having all these different mindsets within that cabinet leads to a greater outcome. So a visionary is gonna really see the future and dream big. That manager sometimes gonna identify more of the roadblocks and key barriers that may intend on us being successful. And so we can really identify those things early on, and at the end of the day, we come up with the better plan. Another benefit in my approach of having a mix of individuals on my cabinet is that when you have seasoned managers, sometimes they aspire to be executive leaders, but they’re not there yet in their career. So having a part of that team that really helps their career growth and their journey through life and aspiring to reach their top goal, making them the best they can be. I also really like to look at the strengths within that group. So I do different assessments. Gallup StrengthsFinder is one that I use. And when you really look at it, particularly within IT, you’re gonna see strong categories when it comes to executing ideas as well as strategic thinking. One of the gaps you’ll see is that relationship building or influencing. So those are some of the skills I really look for even though they’re gonna be few and far between, but I really try to identify those individuals because they’re gonna really help keep the team together, be that glue for the team as well as the organization as a whole. 

Sanjog Aul [00:10:36]:

So given of course, you know, it depends on the size of organization and what you’re managing and what the tasks that you’ve taken on, would you really think that you should be managing this group, or can it be left alone? Because we actually interestingly did a show on laissez faire, leadership, which is a hands off approach. Of course, there was a pushback on whether that approach will work or not. But then if you get a set of managers, I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it, but then you would get sucked in. And is that the best use of your time if you build such a cabinet?

Brian Haugabrook [00:11:13]:

When I build the team that I have, it is not I do have some hands on periodically, but I also want those leaders on that team to be able to take ideas and run with them. I prefer everybody on my team. I’m clear and I frequently tell them this. We have to be able to be open with our discussion, and we have to give criticism. If they think that an idea is bad or good, they’re able to share that. But with that comes that high level of responsibility that they can actually go off and make decisions themselves. They can get things done themselves. But as a team, we frequently come together to make sure that, hey, here’s everything we’re doing. We’ll make sure that we’re all on the same page, but they have to have that flexibility and that leadership to be able to go off and make decisions on their own, be responsible for their areas without having to depend on the CIO to always give them input, give them advice, make the final decision. So there has to be that flexibility where they can work independently, but as well as we come together as a team to make sure we’re still all moving in the same direction.

Sanjog Aul [00:12:25]:

Let’s take a quick break listeners and let’s explore the subject of the autonomy that a leader like Brian as a CIO would like to have to choose your own cabinet members, like the lieutenants. If you look at any other hire for the most part across the business or technology, you would have more than one person or a set of team, almost a steering committee in many cases, evaluating that individual or that team makeup, etcetera. But when it comes to the IT cabinet, the bug stops at you. The rest of the business leaders may not truly understand what you’re trying to do. They just want you to get certain things done. But at the same time, you don’t want yourself to be the one struggling with that decision of building that cabinet and not having any sounding board. And, yes, you can go to your own lieutenants or remaining lieutenants, but you do not know whether that input is enough. So this is one task of building your IT cabinet where it can be lonely up there. Who would you like to have by your side so that when you do make a decision, you’re never second guessing yourself? Please stay tuned, listeners. We’ll be right back.

Sanjog Aul [00:15:35]:

Welcome back. So an interesting and the most critical task is this where you’re trying to choose your lieutenants. If you were to talk to just your lieutenants within the IT department, I’m not sure if you can think about this to be 100% objective at all times. So there will be, you’ll have to take things with a grain of salt because they themselves are involved or somebody as a team member has been invited in, etcetera. If you talk to people in HR or in business, they really don’t know the nuances of how you want to build a mix, and they may not be aware about how the marketplace may be changing in terms of the skill mixes that you need to get the job done. So you could be left alone if there was no help, and that itself is not a good position to be in because this is one of the things that can make or break you as a CIO in terms of your effectiveness. So what do you do? Who do you turn to, Brian?

Brian Haugabrook [00:16:36]:

When I look at when I build my teams, one of the things I definitely do and I do this weekly is I’m constantly getting feedback, both internal to IT as well as the stakeholders that we support and the community in general that we support. When we build out our strategic plan, we look to connect how every role within the IT organization both from a lieutenant level and down to the general staff. How every role leads is a part of the success of the entire organization as a whole. When it comes specifically to building my leadership team, all of my leaders are gonna have more of an outward facing engagement just as much as they do internally. I mentioned earlier about meeting with this. They should meet with stakeholders who they support just as much as they meet with the other IT vendors that’s providing them technology. And so when I build committees whether it’s a search committee, I’m always gonna have more of an external participation in that committee than I will internally. One search that I’m doing now for director of IT services within the organization, there’s only 1 person that’s from IT on this committee. Everybody else on that committee is a key stakeholder within the organization. They play a key role in the success of the organization, and this role is very essential to making them successful. So I really wanna get their input in how can we make this team or make this new hire the best for the organization. Periodically, what I also like to do is get an outside assessment of this. We’re working with a company now that comes in and they do assessments. They provide leadership who’ve been past CIOs for 20, 30+ years. That’ll come in and just do an assessment of the organization. We like to do this every few years, just to know, hey. What are the strengths they see? What are the weaknesses? And one thing that they do from this outside perspective is they interview internally and they interview about 60 to 70 people outside of the IT organization, so that they can bring back to us a comprehensive plan or here’s what’s good, here’s opportunities for growth. And we can also include that feedback in how we restructure our organization or how we build different skill sets and identify different roles that we need to bring in.

Sanjog Aul [00:19:11]:

And while it’s critical to work very closely with this set of lieutenants, if I were to convert them into a black box, each of those lieutenants is a capability in essence. Right? And you do not necessarily need every possible capability you need to run your IT within the company. Do you think one of this black box could be an outsourced or a partner relationship, which literally sits on your board and that inner team, if you will, so that you can still deliver what you want without having to really find a human body to fill that role?

Brian Haugabrook [00:19:48]:

Yes. I think that’s important and I’m in the higher ed industry. So, bringing in new staff with new leaders is a big challenge for us primarily due to we don’t often times to hire competitive salaries. That’s one reason. Another reason is just the evolution of technology in general. Whether you look at the hybridization of IT things being on premise in the cloud, the use of technology within different area business units around the organization. Technology is evolving in such a way that the only way IT is gonna be successful now and going forward is already begun to happen is we have to have a combination of experts both on premise, internal to IT, external to IT, as well as different professionals in other industries that can bring in and fill in those gaps when we need them. The rapid pace of technology, we’re not gonna be able to keep up with everything. But that’s why it’s really important for the lieutenants to be able to constantly step out of their comfort zone and not be so wrapped up in the past of trying to do things the same way they’ve always done it because that’s how they were trained. We have to constantly reenvision what we do. We have to constantly ask questions of how can we do this better or where are our gaps and be open and honest about it. That’s why when I build a team, the first thing I promote is, hey, we have to be honest. We have to be open with each other. But as a unit, as an IT cabinet, we have to be able to laugh with each other. We have to be a tight knit group like brothers and sisters, so that we do know when it’s time to step out of our comfort zone, bring in people from the outside, and accept that constructive criticism so we can continue to be successful.

Sanjog Aul [00:21:40]:

And when you are reviewing especially any, like, even today as you’re reviewing the role and the one which you’re trying to hire for and or the other ones that you may have already hired and they’re in place and actually adding value. The way the things are moving in technology and in business priorities, if you were to really map out what you started out with when they were hired, they might have been the perfect fit or near perfect. And that could start changing and must be changing as you live every day and work and deliver value to business every day. So do you think we should accept this near perfection and say, you know what? Unless otherwise this you know, there are major issues, ones who I’ve hired would somehow evolve to that newer state of competence and understanding and alignment that you’ll deliver or your eyes like a hawk on this cabinet at all times, and you keep tweaking things or require these people to tweak themselves or the way they approach things so that you’re most relevant. Because you could then come across as nagging or trying to micromanage, whereas what you’re just trying to do is to stay relevant as a cabinet and as a team.

Brian Haugabrook [00:23:03]:

Yeah. I believe when it comes to being relevant, man, as you say, you’re never hired the perfect person or as you mentioned, when you hire them today, next week, the priorities are gonna change or the skills that’s needed will change. So I think it’s really important to focus on the team building and the lieutenants and how they’re a part of the organization. When I look at my team, we know that we’re gonna have to change. We know they’re gonna be different needs. But where we have our strengths, that is how we build the relationships with our stakeholders. They don’t just call us when they need something. We’re a part of their success. We’re a part of their strategic planning. Even when a discussion is not any technology discussed, we’re there to let them know that we support them. And then in return, they’re gonna support us. They’re gonna understand that as we evolve, we have to share these challenges together. So it’s not it doesn’t become just an IT challenge. As an organization, we then all support each other during this change, and we see how we need to evolve. But to think that we’re gonna be perfect, that’ll never happen with us. So we definitely have to make sure that, as things change, a lieutenant that may have been perfect coming in, 1 year from now, they may have to change or we may have to outsource to bring in somebody to fill that gap. One change that I’ve had to make in recent years, is bringing a lieutenant that has no background in IT at all. A person with strengths in communication, public relations, engagement, fundraising. Bringing that in the IT was a critical need, but one that internally, an IT team wouldn’t necessarily support because hiring internal to IT, the first thing you look for is what’s that person’s background in IT. But as an organization, we identified that as a critical need at the time because there need to be a better bridge between what IT does internally and what the business needs. So having someone who can really fill that gap can better help translate the needs of IT, the needs of the organization, and it helps with that partnership and that relationship building, with the IT community and the organization itself.

Sanjog Aul [00:25:32]:

So I totally understand what you just mentioned in terms of communicating and empathizing with each other in terms of what the big problem is. So let’s kind of work together. How about actually focusing on solving this problem? So it becomes because of the fact that things change in business, the gap gets created. And while that gap remains, you may not be 100% or even 90%. You might be falling below that, and you may know it. So to what degree what level of tolerance in terms of lack of relevance would you like to keep? Or what’s your threshold below which is when you will start reacting? Because you cannot lose your sleep every moment of the day. But I’m sure you’d have some threshold, some benchmarks that you may have established in terms of how much gap is enough and above that I’m gonna make a move?

Brian Haugabrook [00:26:31]:

My thresholds depend on the impact to the overarching organization’s key performance indicators. Every organization has strategic goals, whether it’s meeting the sales target, in higher education for us is the percent of students that we can graduate and that we can help be successful in their educational journey. So the thresholds for me revolve around those goals for us. So when we’re not meeting those goals or when there’s a gap where technology can help move the institution forward on one of those high priority items, it becomes an immediate escalation for me to figure out a resolution or a way to solve that problem. So if it’s a lower priority item, then, you know, we have a lot more flexibility. We have a longer time frame to react to that situation. Maybe it’s not as an urgent need as something that’s gonna be a key performance indicator to the organization. Anytime something’s affecting those key performance items, whether it’s NIP or in a different area within the organization, you have to be able to respond quickly. There’s a very low tolerance at that point for just remaining the same. You have to figure out what is the need, how can you resolve that issue, and you have to do it fast. So whether it’s externally reaching out to strategic partners in the industry or outside the industry, but whatever has to be done to make sure you’re improving the organization performance metrics, that becomes the priority for me.

Sanjog Aul [00:28:16]:

Let’s take a quick break, listeners. We’ll be right back and talk about the very nature of changes that are happening or the newer technologies or business computing paradigms that we are experiencing. They may not be ever experienced in the past by anyone, including you, Brian. And your lieutenants are supposed to take it, understand it, and run with it. They do not really bring those approaches from their past experiences. So I would not say that they are a clean slate type of people because they are primarily professionals with good attitude, but still there’s something to be said about tackling IT challenges or business related IT challenges knowing something about this stuff. So do they really stay qualified and be part of your IT cabinet and tackle these things without having any background? How do you repurpose or how do you train or bring them up to speed before you’ll say, okay. Go tackle it. Because you have to be involved, and you’re also responsible ultimately. Please stay tuned listeners. We’ll be right back.

Sanjog Aul [00:31:11]:

Welcome back. So, when we are looking at the newer disruptions in business and technology, Brian, we do not really have anyone who can claim that they know it all or even know close enough to be qualified to tackle it upfront. But these are your lieutenants. People look up to them. And if you’re going to introduce these new technology approaches or be invited to talk about, oh, we have these new changes in the business happening or the way students are reacting, how do you think we can talk about it? You should not be the only person in the room, and your other people should be equally ready. How do you make them ready before they’re called out?

Brian Haugabrook [00:31:53]:

This is a challenge that I’ve faced over the years. The first thing I do is I’m completely honest with my lieutenants. As I mentioned in an earlier question, the role of IT has become from where we were once behind the scenes to now we have to be a partner. And when we were behind the scenes, the lieutenant expected to get their direction from me. Any strategic goals I would lay out, they would do, versus now, they have to step up and be leaders themselves to the organization. Because again, as CIO technology is so embedded in everything the organization does that as a CIO, I can’t be everywhere at the same time. So I’m less effective because I need lieutenants who can be out there. So a big struggle that I’ve seen in other organizations as well as my own is how do I get the lieutenants to really change the way they think to be these partners. And it first starts with just being honest about the things that they are doing and having those tough conversations. The makeup of my cabinet has changed over the years, due to this new evolution of how the organization is using technology. Some leaders have a more back office approach and so when I work with them, I really have to work on how they can inspire their team members. So everybody that reports to that lieutenant, that lieutenant now has to be more of an influencer, and a relationship builder. And that is a strategy that I have to work with them on, provide constant feedback, bringing other people or other lieutenants who have a strength in that relationship building, to assist them as they evolve. So that again comes to that team approach, to where, hey, we can identify this weakness in that lieutenant, but we can bring other lieutenants in to help solve that problem, help improve that situation. But it really begins with having those open conversations, just being honest with people and what I found is, it may hurt somebody sometime to have that tough conversation, but long term they’re gonna respect you more for it and they’re gonna grow themselves. They’re gonna aspire to resolve whatever issues they’ve having. But more importantly, they’re gonna evolve so they can continue to be relevant in how they support your organization. But really changing the lieutenants, particularly within IT, going from this behind the scene, hey, you just tell me what you need, I do it to where they’re now engaged. And so I see a lot of gaps in that area in a number of lieutenants that I have, but we’ve had to resolve that over the years. And, of course, there are gonna be some people who cannot take that evolutionary step in their career. There are gonna be some who just wanna continue to do the things, the old ways, the old methodology or way of thinking. And so when that case happens, you have to as a CEO, I have to make the tough call of when it’s time to make changes to that leadership team. And so it becomes very stressful at times, as the evolution of IT goes that we have to make those tough decisions internal to our organization. But at first, we have to be honest and really work as hard as we can to help our lieutenants out, before we have to make any tough choices there. 

Sanjog Aul [00:35:24]:

So what you the approach that you mentioned definitely is part and parcel of what a CIO has to do. Now firing someone is easy. That’s one. Second but it may not always solve the problem. And secondly, here, we can assume that the person genuinely wants to contribute, but they are not able to because it is so new, even new for you. So imagine you don’t want one blind leading another blind, but at the same time, you also wanna make sure that this knowledge could come from somewhere, some incubation happens before you tell to the rest of the world that we are even ready to entertain this idea, and you cannot keep saying no to the business forever. So that means you have to act fast to acquire that knowledge and experience and everything else. So this is a multidimensional issue of getting up to speed on something that you’ve never experienced before since childhood for that matter.

Brian Haugabrook [00:36:30]:

What I’ve seen, an example I’ll use is the need for integration services within IT. And this is more in response to how fast applications and platforms are going to the cloud. The IT skill sets in the past, you had infrastructure programming. When it comes to integration, integrating these different services together is sort of a hybrid. It requires a combination of skills. It requires a different way of thinking that in my organization we’ve never done before. But here, the business users, they’re rapidly moving to these new platforms and we’re required more and more to do these complex integrations. It was a skill set that was lacking in both myself and my lieutenants. So the first thing we had to do is be open about, hey, this is a skill set we’re lacking. We had to really find staff that we could train up. But more importantly, we had to reach outside of our organization, not just IT or the business users, but to the technology industry to those leaders at certain companies, that we could bring in to help guide us through that conversation, to help us build to understand what are the best practices we need to do, but also what skills do we need to bring in to do this. And so it was a very challenging year when we had to transition from more of a support or programming or just infrastructure support to now we have to be these integration specialists in understanding how all these applications that don’t natively talk to each other, how do we make them work cohesively for our business users. And so it’s something that we identified as and it comes to being honest with each other and being able to openly have those discussions with my lieutenants is that, hey, here’s something we need to do. Here’s the gap in our knowledge, a gap in our leadership. But as a team, we’re gonna all share this together. It could have been easy for my director of enterprise application to feel like, hey, this is a weakness on me. It’s my fault. But the teams that I like to build with my lieutenants is we share our successes together and we share our failures together as well. So it wasn’t a point the finger at this guy saying, hey, you need to learn it. We all acknowledge that it is a gap that we’re gonna try to solve together. And that’s why I really focus on that team cohesiveness and working as one in how we solve that problem. But we had to go outside the organization to find the right leadership and skill set to achieve that goal.

Sanjog Aul [00:39:18]:

So would you say that when the things change, is it expected or should it be expected by the CIO if you did your job right in terms of hiring the right lieutenants that they volunteer to come out of their comfort zone and acquire whatever it takes to become relevant in their own position at the very least. And if that happens, then the cumulative effect is that your cabinet risk stays relevant at all times, which also means that you hire people with that bone, if you will, that leadership bone, where they take leadership, at least if nothing else, not the leadership for the whole department, but self leadership that they’re gonna step up.

Brian Haugabrook [00:40:00]:

Yeah. I do expect not just the lieutenants, but the staff to acquire the knowledge and skills to fix or plug up whatever that gap is. But at the same time, we have an understanding that if something new comes about, which is always with technology, there’s always a new direction, always a new best practice. So we’re always rethinking and questioning ourselves. We’re always stepping out of our comfort zone. So when it comes to my lieutenants, we’re always looking at we try to anticipate what’s gonna happen and prepare ourselves for it. But that’s not gonna always be the case. But when we do identify something, as I mentioned with the integration, there’s gonna be times where in a temporary period, we’re gonna have to look outside for that help until we transition and feel comfortable that, hey, we can now be the experts at this and we can fully now really take on that leadership role of it. So there are gonna be those opportunities. Other times this may happen is when you have a key lieutenant that is very strong in one area who may lead the organization. They may have better opportunities or just wanna explore different career options. So that can leave a gap and I’ve seen that happen numerous times. So it’s really important then to understand that, hey, we need to refill this gap in our leadership. But again, being in higher ed, there could be times where I can’t fill a certain role just because, you know, we’re in a remote area of the country in South Georgia, and being in higher ed, we may come off of the competitive pricing. So we have to be nimble and flexible to be able to respond to those gaps. But more importantly, we try to be proactive and plan ahead for those things. But when it comes unexpectedly, we have to just own up to those mistakes. But I do expect all of us, even myself, I’m constantly being educated. I’m constantly learning about what’s next. What are those things that I need to learn that has changed that needs to be successful? And I’m not really saying that we need to focus on people’s weaknesses because I believe in focusing on their strength. What I’m really speaking towards is when there’s a need in the organization that requires that IT response, we have to then focus on how can we achieve that knowledge and that expertise to where we can be a leader in it.

Sanjog Aul [00:42:28]:

Let’s take a quick break, listeners. We’ll be right back, and let’s talk about the situations, group dynamics, if you will, that may come up where individually, they have the best interest in mind. But when Brian, you’re not in the room, and these team members, whether all of them together or two or three at a time, however and whatever combination, when they’re trying to solve a problem or go in a given direction, they could be butting heads. They could have difference of opinion, and there could be some animosity or hostility that could get developed because they’re all humans at the end of the day no matter how good a lieutenant they are, and which could undermine what would happen as an outcome in terms of what leadership team delivers. This happens in some of the best organizations, the ones which have the most resourceful people, organizations, the ones who have the best leaders like yourself. How do you minimize this? Please stay tuned, listeners. We’ll be right back and explore.

Sanjog Aul [00:45:21]:

Welcome back. So we are talking about the group dynamics, the conflicts that may come up because of them all being humans. Yes. They may have all the leadership traits and the management skills that you may have hired them for, but things happen. And when you are not there, it may cause harm to the company even though they don’t intend to do that, but things happen. How do you prevent such leakage?

Brian Haugabrook [00:45:47]:

I enjoy the conflict sometimes. I come from a sports background. So when I think about, you know, we’re coming up the football season. You got guys on both teams. They’re battling each other. But at the end of the game, they all shake hands, and most of them will go out and have fun that evening. When it comes to my lieutenants and the teams they support, I don’t wanna go to a meeting or I don’t wanna see them in a meeting where they just kinda sit around and talk and try to see who comes up with the best ideas. I encourage them to challenge the ideas. I encourage them to poke holes in each other’s thinking. I encourage my lieutenants. If you think I say something, tell me, hey, Brian, this idea is dumb and not gonna work. I encourage that and sometimes that conflict can escalate, but we have to make sure that before we get in a room where we’re sharing ideas and thinking of that, I do a lot of team building. I really work to build my team to where they work as a unit, to where they feel comfortable being open with each other. And that’s the team of lieutenants I want, whether I’m in the room or I’m not in the room. We do these team building exercise so they’re comfortable with each other. What I like to see in my lieutenants is that outside of that meeting you see them going to lunch together or after hours going out for drinks. So when you do that team building, when they’re working as a team, they can openly criticize and challenge each other’s way of thinking. But occasionally it does escalate. So you do have to work with, okay, what is causing this to escalate beyond a point that it should. And you just have to address that directly. But to try and take away all the conflict I don’t think you end up with the best outcome or the best solution. Some of the best ideas that I’ve seen come out of meetings even when I’m present or not, is when everybody’s able to share ideas. Everybody’s able to come up with different challenges and get in heated debate sometimes. But at the end of the day, you have to make sure that when you criticize and I make sure we communicate this, when there is conflict, it’s not about the individual. It’s about the problem. It’s about what we’re trying to do. It never becomes personal. And so when you don’t make anything personal, I really go against making things personal, you can have that conflict then come out in the outcome a better product or better idea service than you could have ever dreamed of.

Sanjog Aul [00:48:32]:

See, what you just mentioned definitely makes sense that you could, in fact, invite conflict so that people are bringing varied views of opinion. I’m talking about situations where there is passive resistance. Somebody shooting somebody else’s idea for the sake of it because they don’t like that other guy or they develop a dislike for this other person. And that happens too. No matter how mature an individual is, things happen. And I’m talking about those situations which are not escalated to you, but they are happening. 

Brian Haugabrook [00:49:10]:

Yeah. In those situations, if I’m not around, it’s not escalated, I expect the lieutenants, some of the lieutenants to address that issue. We shouldn’t have a lieutenant that’s shooting down ideas because they don’t like a person or they’re not there. If that happens, then it’s something we need to address directly and quickly. I’ve been a part of organizations in the past that have not addressed those issues to where you have two people who constantly butt heads, constantly don’t like each other. If one person’s left in charge, the other may go home for the day. And that issue never got resolved. One thing I believe in when those issues arrive, my lieutenants know that it’s something we have to address directly. And if there’s one of the lieutenants that’s causing that issue, it has to get back to the CEO. And as a CIO, you have to address it. Some CIOs resist that confrontation or they’re afraid of confrontation like that. But if you don’t address that situation quickly, again, what you described is somebody directly criticizing or shooting down an idea because of something personal. They don’t like that person. That can’t be accepted at any level, at a lieutenant level, or even in the organization. So you have to make sure that those issues are nipped in the bud quickly. And again it’s not about just okay somebody does that you fire them. No. You can work with somebody. Make sure what is the issue that’s at hand. What is causing them to criticize that personal, make things personal, make their job personal and really work maybe it’s different training, maybe it’s some type of development they need or better communication or just bringing those individuals together. But it’s something that cannot go on even for a day. Once you know that that exists, it has to be taken care of quickly.

Sanjog Aul [00:51:10]:

Now we really spend a lot of time talking about this word relevance. To what degree are you able to justify it so that you spend your energy? Because you could be spending the same energy elsewhere.

Brian Haugabrook [00:51:25]:

What I focus on is the strategic goals of the organization and how IT does this. We are relevant when we are part of solving the problems of the organization. Where IT becomes less relevant is when we don’t communicate with our key stakeholders, and that has happened. We become irrelevant when we don’t get input from the outside, from outside our organization or from our key stakeholders. I have seen IT shops become irrelevant because internally, the personalities and some of the IT teams, in IT, we think we know it all sometimes even when we don’t. So we’re constantly thinking, oh, we know what’s best for the organization and we go off on our own path without really getting key input. So when it comes to being relevant, it’s not a focus on the idea of being relevant but a focus on are we addressing the needs of the organization? Are we a part of the conversation? Many IT organizations, the CIO and the lieutenants, they don’t have a seat at the table. And so then you become less relevant because it’s hard for you to understand are you properly aligned with the goals of the organization instead of just getting this second hand knowledge or here’s a task for you to do. Because there are a lot of things that happen in IT that others around the organization won’t know, particularly on the infrastructure side. They just wanna turn on their smartphones and make the Internet start working as fast. They don’t know what all it takes to do that. So it’s important for IT, the relevance of IT is the CIO and the lieutenants being a part of the conversation, being at the table, not just having a seat at the table to take notes or to jot down the task list, but to be a part of the thinking, being a part of the strategic thinking and the strategies being designed for the success of the organization. And again it’s not just the CIO, the lieutenants are gonna have to play a major role because there’s too much for a CIO to do himself. It’s not possible for me to know everything in the organization. I depend on my lieutenants. They’re gonna be a lot smarter than me when it comes to the issues of the organization. I can only be in a few places at once but my lieutenants, they can spread out and they can have a lot more coverage than me. So as a group the lieutenants will have a stronger role than the CIO has had in the past. So the lieutenants themselves and the CIO together are gonna be that brain trust. They’re gonna be that force that helps IT stay relevant because they’re engaged, because they’re at the table and they are a partner. So when the stakeholders, instead of calling IT for help or when they need you to do something, they’re gonna now call you to say, hey, I got an idea. What do you think about this?

Sanjog Aul [00:54:33]:

On behalf of the show and our listeners, I’d really like to thank you, Brian. This was fantastic. You are living it firsthand as we speak, so you definitely have fresh thinking and ideas about how to handle this task of keeping your IT cabinet first building a proper one and keeping it relevant. Thanks so much. And listeners, please like us on Facebook, search for CTN, and be sure to follow us on Twitter, join our LinkedIn community, and basically subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and download our mobile apps. There’s a lot going on at CTN. Please connect with us. We’d love to get your feedback. Thank you again for listening to this segment on CTN. This is Sanjog Aul, your talk show host. Till next week, take care, and God bless.