• • Sam Segran, CIO, Texas Tech University (TTU)

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Transcript 

Sanjog Aul [00:00:24]:
Hello and welcome to CIO Talk Network. To learn more about the show, please visit ciotalknetwork.com and the topic for today is ‘How to Lead Now’. Here is the situation that, we all know we are stuck in the pandemic. Most of us are working from home and a lot of different things that we never experienced, we are experiencing. Let’s talk about leadership here. Traditionally we used to call leading means you got to have influence, but can you do that in today’s environment? Leadership also meant taking the plunge first to tackle the change and then get other people to follow. But how do you go about it right now? Because we ourselves are not sure as individuals, who are trying to lead.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:12]:
Then it was also about creating a vision. But then how do you do when everything is fuzzy ahead of us? So we are facing this crisis like never experienced before. What we call life, how are organizations working or used to work compared to now how they’re trying to work, and how we even felt a sense of belonging and interacted with our society is all different. How should we rethink leadership and determine the related styles, the approaches and the philosophies that would be useful now? So to discuss this, we’ve invited Sam Segran, who is the CIO with Texas Tech University. Hey Sam, how are you?

Sam Segran [00:01:59]:
Pretty good, Sanjog.

Sanjog Aul [00:02:01]:
Great! So the world, as I said, has changed and I’m sure you and I both are experiencing that. It seems like the journey towards the unknown, things start to look better but then you hear more news. How should one comprehend and define the situation as a leader?

Sam Segran [00:02:26]:
I think the way I would approach it is most businesses tend to have a business continuity plan and I would look at that as a way of extending the use of a business continuity plan to handle what we’re cling to currently. In most instances, when you look at organization and say, hey, if your power fails or if you have a storm, a hurricane, a tornado or earthquake, how do you continue to function? You tend to look at it in that manner, but those things tend to be a little bit more short term in the sense of a few weeks or a few months. This now goes into probably at least a year and a half that we have to go through this transitionary period during Covid-19, so I would take a page from our existing plans and see how can we extend that feed, mirror information into, as we are getting and adjust that as we go? So that’s kind of my philosophy on it.

Sanjog Aul [00:03:22]:
So your definition, you took the example of business continuity and disaster recovery and trying to figure out how do we get back? What if I were to put it under the bucket of managing something? Somehow we get by, somehow we keep the lights on. When we look at the traditional sense, let’s remove the word it from the IT leader, just the leader. That person is not truly saying, I will just help this organization somehow get by through this so that this goes away and then the life will resume the normalcy, which itself is in question right now. Wearing a true leader’s hat, is that how we should look at it? It’s not about we are trying to solve a problem here. We are trying to fundamentally see what happened and how will we lead moving forward because the parameters have changed fundamentally in some cases?

Sam Segran [00:04:29]:
I don’t think in terms of leadership, we need to be looking to see how we get back to normalcy as we know it. I think you mentioned just now, it’s not about solving a problem, and I agree with you, it’s not solving a problem. I think we are solving numerous problems, many different problems. It’s like General Colin Powell said, leadership is about solving problems, and leaders, if you look at it from that perspective, I think the goal may be to lead back to normalcy, but not necessarily in the same fashion as we were used to. I think we need to reset expectations in some aspects, but at the same time we shouldn’t lose focus on the vision of where we were heading and who we are.

Sam Segran [00:05:18]:
We may need to tamper that a little bit in terms of some empathy and compassion with the situation that our employees are in, our customers are in. I think that’s the pieces that we need to bring in.

Sanjog Aul [00:05:33]:
So the traditional sense and of course, whenever, we are CTN, CIO Talk Network, so we talk to CIOs and that means it’s very business focused, understood, granted. That’s the scope or the context in anyone who’s going to be talking right now. But then as you mentioned, the words empathy and care, if you will, the softer side, that was more done or is being more done in many cases where people say, this is something we have to do because employees need it. But the context still remains. I’m a leader, other people are employees. But leading doesn’t always require a title for you to lead and is a today leader, like you are the CIO ,if you were to say, yes, I’m a CIO of a company, but I’m a leader first. I’m a human first.

Sanjog Aul [00:06:24]:
So how about defining the leadership context or leadership title, from a human standpoint versus being part of an organization? Because that would be more fundamental, isn’t it?

Sam Segran [00:06:40]:
I agree, the leadership part is crucial, but you’re exactly right. Leadership in this sense is not about titans. One thing that I noticed in the first, so we had two weeks notice before we had to totally go online, from spring break to online operations, and in that two weeks we did a lot of things. A lot of folks of my staff, other university staff, we worked probably 16 to 18 hour days for two weeks without a weekend to eventually get there. In that process, a lot of people, regardless of title, stepped up. I would say probably they exemplified what leadership is, regardless of title. There were those folks who took charge, who made calls they needed to make to help where they can, to share, but at the same time they did it without losing the structure in terms of communication.

Sam Segran [00:07:42]:
So instead of going back to chain to ask, we basically cut loose our employees and teams and groups and say, this is your project, this is your project, this is your project. Everyone had basically something to accomplish and they took charge. I think leadership in that sense comes from both team leaders themselves who are making the calls that are best suited to the situation on the ground, and at the same time they are also communicating back with us. I think leadership from my senior team is also giving them that leeway to make those calls. I think leadership in this case is both, some that was provided in training and preparation. I think some of that was also part about people actually themselves emerging as leaders that may not have been leaders in a formal sense of titles.

Sanjog Aul [00:08:39]:
There is another aspect to leadership, or rather a truth about leadership, is that “you don’t become a leader, other people make you one’. You got to earn it, right? So today if I were to ask you to say, okay, go Sam, appear in an exam for leadership where the only way you will pass is other people will give you good mark, what would you do in today’s environment so you earn that stripe of a leader?

Sam Segran [00:09:14]:
I think in that sense you really have to go out there and it goes back to what we are trying to do, the objectives, the impact, what are we trying to accomplish by trying to do it with collaboration and teamwork more than a top down directive. I think that’s important and it was important before and I think it is more important now where we are able to get things done through collaborations and also through folks who don’t normally are reporting to us in the normal reporting chain. It’s the influence that you actually have in that sense more than authority. I think that’s important in context of what you’re asking.

Sanjog Aul [00:09:53]:
Would you say is that like the way one is what you just said, okay, this is what we should do, but is that what’s happening out there? Are the people who got the title of a leader even in an organization, are they really stepping up to that level where they truly earn the stripes as a leader in today’s context, are people really looking up to anyone or everyone is struggling with their own survival?

Sam Segran [00:10:22]:
I think there’s a mix. I think there are people who are struggling with their own survival. But I think I’ve also seen not just within my own environment. I watch our daily mayoral briefings from our city and you’re beginning to see physicians step, we’ve always looked at physicians as a medical doctor, but you’re beginning to see leadership coming out of those folks during the daily briefings in terms of how they’re handling the questions they get from the public. I see that in my own employee pool for those who have stepped up and yes, the other part of the unasked question you had was some of them fail, some of them are not going to step up and they fail for different reasons. Sometimes you’re right, they’re on self survival mode and sometimes they’re basically blinded. They’re basically hit by too many things too all at once. But you do begin to see a lot of people stepping up.

Sam Segran [00:11:18]:
It’s not going to be a hundred. I’m actually quite pleased to see what I have seen at least in our regional areas, in our university, and also I do see people step up in terms of delivering public good without recognition. People who have gone around to help community in terms of collecting food and feeding, for instance, people who are out feeding animals. There are a lot of people doing a lot of good out there. You know, when this first thing started, a friend who basically came out to her house and delivered a couple of masks, I didn’t have an ask for it. It’s things like that, people who take it upon themselves to see what the need is and going out there and doing what they can with the resources they have, both in the context of a formal role, but also in the form of an informal role because there are people who are able to do things that are beneficial and who actually are stepping up to do that.

Sanjog Aul [00:12:23]:
So if I am giving, right, that’s what you mentioned, people are going out, finding what the need is, they step up. That’s giving. Being a giver is one of the traits of a leader and that individual who’s giving is taking the leadership. Nobody asked them to do so. This is purely voluntary, very individual specific. How can we institutionalize this within a company, within an industry, within the society so that leadership is not just a matter of an individual thinking one at a time, but we cross inspire each other. Even a person who’s at the top within a company thinks like that person who’s an individual going out and helping others, but not just doing that, they are inspiring the rest of them to do the right things.

Sanjog Aul [00:13:16]:
In that process we get through this together versus everyone just looking up to that one person so he or she has to. This top level leader has to build other leaders, and that’s what perhaps one of the traits of a good leader is today. We need to consciously build leaders faster and better so that we have more leaders in the society and in the companies. So we get through these things together. Please stay tuned listeners. We’ll be right back and explore about this a little more. How do you develop other leaders when people are just struggling with the survival?

Sam Segran [00:13:51]:
Please stay tuned.

Sanjog Aul [00:14:48]:
Welcome back. So here is what we have been dealing with. Individual givers, voluntary, good work, people trying to help each other. In a way, the pandemic has perhaps evoked the human emotion a lot more. Otherwise people were just in a race. Now that said, coming back to the leadership part, if we leave people alone and this whole effort is fragmented and purely voluntary and some people have the capability to give a lot more or be a better leader, but nobody better is out there, or nobody is out there to support them or build them into another leader. That’s a shame and now is the time when we need most leaders, self leaders or people who can lead others.

Sanjog Aul [00:15:34]:
What do you think, Sam, we should be doing, as corporations and community, you develop other leaders, but with intentionality?

Sam Segran [00:15:49]:
I think one of the principles of leadership in business is about recognizing the leadership. Development is an ongoing practice. You don’t just create ranking folks and move on and hire the next time you need one. The goal is to train people continuously. I can tell you what we did. We used Gartner services quite a bit. I had one of our Gartner CRO partners, Cindy came by and trained about half my workforce in leadership training a couple of years and following year we did communications training for the same group.

Sam Segran [00:16:35]:
Combination of continuous training is one aspect of it, and the other one is, make it fail safe. In terms of folks who work in the ranks of any company, any community, if someone has an idea, I think that’s something that should be heard. For instance, the principles of Mercer, one of the principles they have is that good ideas have no rank. A good idea is a good idea. It doesn’t matter who came up with that idea. So I think we need to be able to practice that more deliberately in the sense that when you seek input for feedback from people in the community, for instance, how to make the community better, listen to the community, don’t just go through the motions of. But actually listen, see who’s saying what.

Sam Segran [00:17:29]:
Because those are the folks who are actually seeing what the need is out and recognizing that and then putting some formal programs along with that. Like, I know in our city, in Lubbock, they’ve had what they call leadership lovers that the chamber puts together year by year, they go through and train about 30 or 40 people into all aspects of leadership. But also in terms of knowing what the different key core businesses are in the community and what the core services are from the city and connecting people to entities they otherwise would not see on a normal basis. So this helps members in the community brightening, kind of broaden their horizon about who else is out there as part of the community, and then structure that a little bit with some formal training. I think this needs to be part of the activities that folks do, regardless of what business you’re in, is to dedicate either 5% or 10% of the business’s resources into developing employees in the leadership aspects.

Sanjog Aul [00:18:41]:
Now, one is that you mentioned, you had someone come in for training, and you bring those people to training now we have to see that through, that these people are starting to show signs that they’re improving and developing into a leader. Then they have to be given an opportunity to go jumping into the swimming pool, sometimes without floaters to see how they swim and are they struggling and they grow, right? You got to temper them. There was a pre-covid era and now this is the era. Are we continuing that effort or are we too preoccupied to somehow get by, let people, slide back into their original self versus continuing that leadership development journey how guys, I use the word intentionality, right? No matter what the situation, we cannot stop developing people. It’s more important than ever that if possible we should even accelerate. Are we putting the money where the mouth is?

Sam Segran [00:19:42]:
I totally agree with you on that. So one of the things that when we look at when businesses go through a time like this, especially during COVID there is a tendency to say, okay, what can we do without? And I would sincerely hope that every business, every organization, all the leaders make a decision that is appropriate for their areas. However, none of those folks should be looking at training as an aspect of cutting your cost because this is the worst time to cut training aspects of what’s needed in any business or any organization. I can understand telling folks, okay, you can do entertainment, you can do travel, but training is core and crucial, especially at a time like this, to equip people to have cross functional skills, or to train up in leadership aspects, or to train up with formal training. All of the training is a core component I think during this time and I think some do a better job at it than others. I think the grassroots level of folks who exhibit some leadership, and not only leadership abilities, but also interest in those areas can be developed further.

Sanjog Aul [00:21:09]:
Now, wherever you are looking at anything related to the leadership principles, right? There have been books written, there have been new methodologies and philosophies promoted and are brought out in front of the world. One of them has merits, other are just repetitions. If I were to ask you to rationalize the leadership principles which we must use in today’s context, or you would have personally used them or maybe starting to use them now so that you as a leader are more relevant and more impactful in today’s context and moving forward, which leadership principles would those be?

Sam Segran [00:21:53]:
I think I mentioned making sure that leadership development as an ongoing practice. But the other one I mentioned was making it fail safe in terms of folks being able to speak up but I think some of the others that I would look at is one of the principles about is hiring for transformation. I think that’s something to think about because in an era like this change is rapid, it is continuous looking for new ideas, looking for innovation. A lot of that comes out of not necessarily myself or my senior leaders or my mid level managers. It could be anyone out there. It could be an employee that hasn’t formally been raised to a certain rank. It could be even a customer of ours who basically may bring some new ideas. I think that is a core piece of principles that we need to be open about.

Sam Segran [00:22:49]:
We also need to be more honest and open about information. I think in order for some of these folks to make a good contribution to the good of society or good of the organization is they need to have access to information. So I think that the whole issue of transparency, of making sure that people understand why policies are made the way they are and what leads to certain policies or certain processes in place, I think if that is more openly within the organization, I think that also helps to contribute folks to develop themselves. I think the other one that I think the military has a thing in leadership where they say leadership is not a thing, it’s a relationship. It’s important how people relate to each other in terms of influencing someone versus basically ordering someone or telling someone. I think the influencing someone is probably more long lasting. I think it is better received. I think those are the aspects that we principle of leadership push for those things.

Sanjog Aul [00:24:03]:
Now if I were to look at the pandemic and I mentioned this in the introduction itself, that we were in a race and we were essentially all about business agility and innovation and disruption. Now that, yes we want to do it, but we know we cannot keep going at that hundred miles an hour pace because there are many aspects context to that innovation and disruption. And the fundamentals that we were building this whole agility on may have changed. Essentially that was being done under the leadership of people who also were depending on those other fundamentals which existed pre-covid what would be now the new mantra, the new guideline for the leaders. But you know what Sam, let’s take a quick break, we’ll be right back. Then let’s dig deeper.

Sanjog Aul [00:26:03]:
Agility, innovation, disruption. These were the kind of words we were hearing every day and we were chasing like there is no tomorrow. These, holy grail of everything is super fast, super effective, super innovative. Covid stalled us, made us think again, maybe startedlooking at things differently and forcing us to start thinking about leadership differently. So if you were to give the new set of guidelines, Sam, what would those be for the leadership part?

Sam Segran [00:26:45]:
I think some of those are still valid. I think the agility, innovation, disruption is still valid. But I think I would add to that words like resilience, cross training, skills training, adaptability, diversification, nimbleness. I think those are the types of things that we need to inculcate into folks in terms of how to operate or how to think about operating their business is really about the resilience is an important one. It’ll be interesting to see at the end of this COVID-19 period, at the end of this pandemic, how many businesses fail and don’t come back home. Why? Some of them might be by the nature of the business they were in. But the other piece of it is if you look at from a resilience perspective and adaptability, when we were driving around town during the early days of lockdown, you noticed that there were some Starbucks stores that basically shut down, but then there were others that were operating and there’s one difference.

Sam Segran [00:27:51]:
The difference was those that had a drive through ability, whether it was a Starbucks or a Sonic or any restaurants, those restaurants survived or were able to survive by continuing to have a drive through service. Those that did not have a drive through service, some of them adapted by having call in orders and bringing orders out. So they were adapting. Others just basically shut it. So I think that’s just one example in a community. I think if you think about it going forward, one thing that every business leader need to be thinking about is how would I continue to function, how would I be resilient in this environment if it comes up again? Or how can he adapt quickly? How will I train my employees to be able to work in an environment like this? So I think going back and saying that again, I think the things that really should come up high on the list of any leaders is going to be resilience, cross training, skills training, adaptability, and also diversify more than one line of business that will be profitable for the business or at least help the business survive and meet the bottom line.

Sanjog Aul [00:29:03]:
That’s great that you at least outlined some of the key ones that people can follow. Now what after they understand what to be done, what’s the execution path to getting these inculcated? Because not everyone is born or nurtured or got the opportunity to be nurtured as a leader, and you want this to be not just in the ivory tower. You want that ideally at every level of the organization, because you want the cumulative effect. How do you do that?

Sam Segran [00:29:37]:
Well, I think that that goes back to the earlier one that mentioned when we talked about recognizing leadership development as an ongoing practice. This is really selling that idea to kind of rephrase what you said, ivory tower. The folks in the ivory tower need to buy into. They need to recognize that. I personally believe after going through a time like this, they will be more amenable to buying into these kind of ideas than they were before. Mainly because they would have the opportunity to see what works. One way to look at this, what are the silver linings that we can get out of this period? I know there are people who are hurting. I know there are people who are barely surviving.

Sam Segran [00:30:21]:
I know there are people who are working long, hard hours to survive, both from the family side and also from the business side around all of this. If you look for silver lining is to look and see what helped. I think a lot of good leaders will take a good lesson from these things and be able to incorporate that into their training with their own employees, and not just the management teams, but with the employees in general. I would love to see that in any organization to be able to incorporate aspects of that.

Sanjog Aul [00:30:56]:
Now, if you are looking at what is the precedence, we did not have any. So discovery process and realignment process we have to use for other people who would want to follow a leader because we can naturally navigate. We as leaders, we means I will take the liberty, even though I do not know if I qualify to be a leader. But suppose I take you. So Sam, as a leader was born with something. You got the opportunity, you know how to figure out, how to discover yourself and what’s to be done and then how to realign things. You would know it, but others don’t. Should you wait for all of them to get better and to get that level so that everyone comes along together in Sing Kumbaya or you would say let me deal with the crisis right now and I will bring them along when I will be there?

Sanjog Aul [00:32:00]:
What’s realistic? One is to talk philosophy here on the show. Another is what’s realistic.

Sam Segran [00:32:05]:
I think what’s realistic and I can base that based on what we are doing internally is not just utilizing the leaders we team leaders we have in place, but also noticing those who have stepped up and giving them more roles, giving them more leadership roles even now to be able to deliver because some of them have stepped up. I think as leaders it’s our responsibility to recognize that and to give that and you mentioned it earlier, they need that opportunity to show what they can do regardless of a title. I think that is something that it takes good leadership to recognize and say okay, person X or person Y during this period has done these things. I wonder if I gave him this ABC items how they would do with that using the same type of thinking, rationality, rationale that they’re using. So I think taking advantage of what we are going through right now and giving them more opportunities is one way immediately. I don’t think we should wait until this fall or next spring or end of summer to do that. I think we can start that in a small way right now. By the same token, on a long term basis we need to have an idea what does the long term plan look like and what does this mean to our HR rules and policies.

Sam Segran [00:33:29]:
One of the toughest jobs I think for any community to have are the HR directors and the HR personnel. Because if anyone who’s going to have a ton of problems to solve on their plate are those HR folks. So we need to be working with them long term. How can we leverage what we have seen as successful methods of leadership or leadership training? How can we incorporate that in a long term aspect? So in addition to like you mentioned earlier, the leaders in the ivory tower, we also need HR on with us in this journey of going forward. How do we get better from you?

Sanjog Aul [00:34:12]:
So when we look at and interestingly you mentioned the word you know something that you look forward to, I would take it back and give it the name vision which is what was supposed to be a leader’s responsibility. So once you are done with the firefighting, once you’re done taking whosoever is there, wherever they are, give them the opportunity to volunteer, etc. To take care of what we are dealing with today. We have to get the leaders who have prime responsibility to be able to create a vision, keep refining the vision, keep people aligning to that vision so that we keep moving forward. But that fundamental vision was also based on certain market parameters, the competitive landscape, the customer needs, or wherever. Of course, there was some value system that the company had. Maybe the value system may not have changed, but rest of those other things may have changed. We don’t know what’s ahead of us,

Sanjog Aul [00:35:14]:
for us to still claim that vision we created in 2019 is still holding good. Without that vision, without that clarity, how does one lead?

Sam Segran [00:35:28]:
I think that’s true in some respect, but not for everybody. For instance, if your vision was to. If you’re in the medical field, if your vision is to save lives, that doesn’t change now if it means to save lives in a quicker timeframe or with less resources, so they might adapt their vision a little bit. For higher education, at least for us, our vision. The first one has always been about student success and education. The second one has always been about research and basically discovery of new knowledge. The third one has always been about outreach and engagement. It’s about engaging the community and making the world a better place.

Sam Segran [00:36:11]:
So those basic versions, if they have been set properly, shouldn’t have to change. However, how you accomplish those versions in terms of achieving that, like we might play a bigger role from a higher education institution, research side for pandemics like this, what can we contribute to society? What can we do for the community? What can we do in terms of research? I think those are the areas that will help us tweak that aspect of it. I think every business should take another look at the and see where it makes sense to keep it the same or to modify it. I think if you totally change your vision, then what you’re doing is you’re changing the core business of who you are. So I think that’s a decision that is very relevant. I think you’re exactly right. It’s an opportunity for folks to take a look at and see, do we change the vision? Do we modify the vision, or do we really throw that out and start all over again? I think that’ll be an interesting one to see for certain businesses when you totally have to change it. Because if they have to throw it out and it indicates that whatever business they were in has been fundamentally changed by COVID-19 as we.

Sam Segran [00:37:24]:
I think there’s some areas that probably is true.

Sanjog Aul [00:37:29]:
Let’s take a quick break, listeners. We’ll be right back. Let’s come back to the people who make you the leader and maybe we should talk more in a organizational setting where employees may have concerns about job loss, they may have concerns about the business itself that pays their bills and gives them their paycheck because we don’t know what’s going to happen to it. Then in any such situation besides that, at the personal level, they might have some health concerns for themselves or their family in all of those not as conducive a set of parameters or that conducive an environment. We still want them to keep their head straight, stay sane and still follow leadership. What kind of magic can a corporate leader pull when there are so many debilitating forces or so many distractors which would hold back an employee from doing so? Please stay tuned listeners. We’ll be right back and explore today.

Sanjog Aul [00:39:32]:
So Sam, when we talk about us trying to lead, of course we have the best intent and like any other employee which may who may have their own concerns about employment or rather regularity or continuity of employment, or they may have issues with the continuity of or viability of the business itself, which they work for. At the same time they could have their health concerns. What would make a corporate leader so compelling or their message and what they want to see these employees do so compelling that they will keep all those distractors and personal interests aside and actually start following you?

Sam Segran [00:40:17]:
I think key part of that is to see if that corporate leader both mentioned it earlier is they have both empathy and compassion for the employees or what the employees are going through. Like in our case, our president actually made the call when we basically sent everyone home to work from home. Well, I can work from home. Most of my staff can work from home. Faculty members can work from home. But there are a huge set of students who work on campus who can no longer work, who are now at home. When you have a university of about 40,000 students. A significant portion of them are funding themselves through part time job.

Sam Segran [00:41:05]:
If all of those students suddenly didn’t have a job, basically they have to drop out of school and they’re out there on the streets. So our president made a call at that time that we will continue to pay students for their halftime wages even though they were not doing anything from work but at home. So it takes some leadership to say through this period we’re going to help these people so that they have a place to stay, so that they have food to eat and then they will participate again in the campus operations when we start opening up again. It takes a lot of leadership gumption to do that. Because on the other hand you have folks who say, wait a minute, you’re going to go in a hole budget wise doing this. But it takes leadership to make a call like that. I think I’ve seen businesses in the community do that. People coming in trying to figure out alternate ways of working and trying to understand in some instances sharing the food they had in their freezer with their employees, families.

Sam Segran [00:42:13]:
So there’s a lot of that I would consider as good ministry where people have stepped up and done that. In some instances I think leadership also comes. Do we just lay off people or do you do some alternate ways? There are companies that have done voluntary leadership for those who are able to do that. A reduction in force or basically an early retirement with severance, or do a voluntary rather than a mandatory furlough or a redeployment of talents, for instance. So there are many different ways that leadership has shown itself, I think in terms of how folks are doing it. We can even do flexible work arrangements. There are areas for instance that are partially open in normally when you have sharing cubicle area and you reduce that to one, but then each one on a half time basis so that only one person is there. So you may actually be only utilizing half your resources, but you’re keeping both employees rather than letting one employee go.

Sam Segran [00:43:23]:
So a lot of dispositions like that is where I think leadership steps up.

Sanjog Aul [00:43:30]:
Now with what you just mentioned, you got communities and you got families, you got individuals and we at one end, like you mentioned, your president did such a noble deed, right? To what degree would it still continue to earn you? Not the loyalty, but the follow. That’s one act, great one, a noble one, but one act. But leader has to earn his or her stripes every day. Today’s day and age benevolence doesn’t sum total to leadership alone, what else should be added to it?

Sam Segran [00:44:22]:
I think that this is where if you have a leader who’s being transparent in sharing real information, real facts and communicating that and telling them what’s coming, where we are going, why we are making these decisions and openly sharing that information, I think that’s the second piece of it. I think that’s where leadership also shows that they’re not making decisions in the high tower in secret. They’re basically showing you the cards and saying, this is where we are going. These are the hard decisions we are making. These are the accommodations we’re making because of these things. I think that’s the second part of it. I think there’s a third component to that, and we talked about it earlier, which is coming back after the transition, going forward. What is the institution or what is the organization going to look like? What is the new face for the organization? I think that’s the third part of the leadership in all aspects.

Sam Segran [00:45:22]:
You want that leader to be transparent, principled, doing the right thing and leading the group. I think that’s what gives people confidence in following that leader.

Sanjog Aul [00:45:33]:
One is to of course lead others and have that position of control. What I mean is not controlling others, but feeling that you have a sense of control. But frankly, including you and I, we are all in the same boat as our employees. So we want to feel noble, we want to feel in control, we want to earn that stripe. But there is some sort of self preservation which is kicking in in all of us as well. We cannot deny that. If we have to look within and most leaders have to look within before for them to build this so called leadership DNA, what would be your approach or what would be your message to all other people who may be in a leadership position but still are concerned about what’s going on and they don’t feel they are in control and they’re not, indeed they’re not in control. How can they keep at it and help others get to where they can go and they continue to earn their stripes as a leader even though they have their own self preservation kicking in, and rightfully so.

Sam Segran [00:46:51]:
I think the self preservation of causes, I think. But even within the group there are those who need help more than others. I think as a leader we need to be able to recognize that. I think that some people are better off than others. I think those are the folks who should be able to accommodate the other people. For instance, in work, this is a time, I think, for leaders to not necessarily expect an employee to be 8 to 5 Monday to Friday. That’s my personal opinion. It’s not our institution’s post on it.

Sam Segran [00:47:30]:
But I think as a leader, if you’re looking to say I want you there 8 to 5 Monday to Friday versus saying let’s look at the impact of what you’re doing, what does your programming work look like? Maybe that’s an area that the leader can help because that person that you’re working with, just self preservation may be making sure that health issues within their family, they may have children, they may have elderly, and so they may have a different need to take care of the children, the elderly or someone who has underlying health issues during this period and to be able to accommodate that person’s schedule and be flexible enough. I think that is more important than saying and mandating that you need to be there at your desk eight to five minutes prime making accommodation. This is the time to do it. I think those are the things that employees will see and remember when all this is passed. That basically the organization cared for you, cared for your needs and not just expecting you to be on the clock. I think those are the types of things we need to be looking at.

Sanjog Aul [00:48:42]:
On behalf of the show and our listeners, I’d really like to thank you, Sam, for sharing your thoughts about how we can lead in today’s unprecedented post Covid. I would not even call it pre-covid or Covid. It’s like we hope it’s a post Covid world so that we are able to create the most value as individuals and for all people involved, for community, for organization and society in general. Thank you so much.

Sam Segran [00:49:08]:
Thank you and listeners,

Sanjog Aul [00:49:10]:
hope you enjoyed it. Got some value out of it. Keep your head held high and get through this. We will all get through this together. Please like us on Facebook, search for CTN. Be sure to follow us on Twitter and follow us on LinkedIn group as well. Thank you again for listening to CTN. This is Sanjog Aul, your talk show host till next week.

Sanjog Aul [00:49:29]:
Take care and God bless.