To stay relevant in today’s fast-paced world, the people within organizations need to become more curious. But most of them stop once they’ve found what is satisfactory and stick by it—how do we enable such curiosity at the scale where all our employees explore unknown territory leading us into unforeseeable paths that can help us thrive throughout changing times?

Contributor

• • Kalpesh Doshi, Group Chief Information Security Officer, HDFC Life

Transcript

Sanjog Aul [00:00:00]:
Hello and welcome to CTN. To learn more about the show, please visit ciotalknetwork.com and the topic today is Enabling Curiosity At Scale. What do I mean by that? So think about the fast paced world that we are living today and we could be present there, but that doesn’t cut it. So we have to truly be relevant and which means we have to innovate, we have to think beyond the obvious, we have to dig deeper, which means it’ll require people in our organizations to become more curious. Now what we have also seen and I’m sure listeners would agree that there are few people who are curious more than others but many of us, we go in terms of very shallow, in terms of our curiosity, we would say, okay, this is what I’m looking for. I found the answer, I stop, I don’t keep digging, I don’t do a deep dive, deep sea diving of sorts so that we can find the pearls. So first step, how do we go about building these deep sea drivers who are curious and also second, how do we do this at scale so that all our employees in their own context and in all sets of responsibility do this deep sea diving and bring the cumulative effect of all of this in terms of the value, the innovation, the newness, what we all seek for our relevance in today’s world.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:33]:
So that said, I have with me Kalpesh Doshi Group CISO, HDFC Life. Hey Kalpesh, how are you?

Kalpesh Doshi [00:01:42]:
I’m very good, thanks Sanjog.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:45]:
Hey, welcome on the show as I’ve set the expectation in terms of what we are talking about here. So we know that the business models in the last few years changed, so did the customer expectations and even the macro trend. Some got disrupted, others evolved and they are rather evolving even today very rapidly. So if we had to think about curiosity, if I keep that topic aside for a second, we have to first understand what on earth just happened to us and unravel the complexities that came with it and build the muscle to adapt. So how well are we doing in that regard?

Kalpesh Doshi [00:02:33]:
I guess Sanjog, if you really ask me, how are we dealing with it and I do believe we’re doing good with it. A classic example of this would be Covid times. Every organization had to really revisit, had to really completely revamp the way of their working because work from home, even in earlier days would only mean a very small section of your workforce who had that, I would say the benefit overnight you had to turn it around where person of your workforce had to work from their homes. So we have seen that there are challenges and will continue to be challenging but as humans, we do find out ways and we do find out innovative ways on how we can continue. So I believe the at the core is resilience and we are resilient. Every living being has an inbuilt quality of resilience. So as long as we have that quality, we are going to find out ways and means on how we’re going to survive

Kalpesh Doshi [00:03:36]:
and that survival could be with regards to individual, their families, their business and so on and so forth. Yes, we have seen this and if you ever have a doubt, I’m sure prior to Covid, people would have found it difficult to correlate but Covid has been one such instance. However, I’m very sure it has impacted everyone, each of us, some way or other. Few it could have impacted the most, you a little less, but there’s an impact and how have we dealt with that at a personal level, at a work level? Again, it signifies that as humans we have it in us to find out ways and means to deal with the change.

Sanjog Aul [00:04:21]:
Very good response and you are connecting the dots between what the human resilience you were born with. You use that to build an organizational resilience. Would you say it is an automatic transfer of that resiliency into the organizational context or there are some in between constructs, frameworks, management, governance, change management required for that adaptation or adaptability to be created at an organizational level?

Kalpesh Doshi [00:04:56]:
I would again put it this way. It would not be natural for few. It may be natural, but many organizations today are nothing but culmination of people with varied thoughts, varied ideologies and different kind of brain which come together. So from that perspective, curiosity at a workplace need not be natural for everyone and hence where you believe that the culture is such that it doesn’t come natural, people and the leaders will have to invest, will have to really think over it and figure out ways and means by which you would encourage curiosity at your workplace where you create a culture where people are allowed to make mistakes because if you really ask what is curiosity. It’s about being trying. If you look at every great invention, it is not something that they were able to crack it on the first try. They failed n number of times but every time they fail, they kept on asking that what is it that I can do different. Curiosity, I see,

Kalpesh Doshi [00:06:04]:
it’s just that fertile thought, a right brother had a thought that if birds can fly, why can’t we. He had a very different idea of how we could fly but yes, nevertheless, he had planted a very fertile seed in minds of many. He would have tried wearing wings and trying to fly. It may not have worked. He did work out with certain models, may not have worked but eventually when that idea started leaning, I would say when people started relating, we saw innovations panel happen and we saw how world change. So that’s why Sanjog, how I look at it, it’s more about encouraging that idea, politics, encouraging a mind which has not stopped to challenge. It’s not stop to question

Kalpesh Doshi [00:06:55]:
because humans are predominantly conditioned and there are a lot of societal conditions. As kids they were always told do not ask many questions in schools. If you are one of the curious kids, you always said, hey, you ask too many questions and you would be silenced. So there is already a lot of unconscious bias that we have as humans when somebody shows a trait of curiosity and to that extent, I believe organizations will also have to adapt to see how they’re going to encourage curiosity at the workplace. It’s easier said than done because nobody likes to be challenged. Nobody likes to be asked a question and if organizations believe that people have to do what they have been told to do, take orders in a way, those organizations are going to find it a challenge and they have to really find out a way and they have to carve out a way on how they can engage  curiosity at workplace.

Sanjog Aul [00:08:01]:
The way you responded, it looks like that while on the surface one could say, oh, these people, the ones which we have in our organization, they are very complacent. If you ask them to do something, they would only do whatever is needed. If you ask them to go and find answer to a question, they will just take that one question and just find whatever they can and be done with it but if I understand you correctly, you are saying we have to look at ourselves as management, as leadership and as a society for us to justify or rather explain why a human is doing this at the workplace where they are just simply complacent.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:08:40]:
I agree, I completely agree here, again, complacency can, there are a lot of factors that can be attributed to complacency. You can also attribute complacency to a kind of a conditioning that an individual has been assumed the person was curious to start with, they were reprimanded every time they showed the treat and it I’ve seen Sanjog I’ve seen in my experience that you find people to be very timid. You find them to be who are always keeping themselves, who don’t open up when you are in group decisions or they keep their thoughts to themselves and it takes efforts for them to open up. So complacency again, I wish there was one single bullet, a silver bullet through which you could have addressed all human behavioral aspects. We know it doesn’t work that way.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:09:34]:
This is a complex world, but you’ll have to figure it out but most important is when you talk about curiosity. It need not be something that everybody has to do. When you inculcate a culture and go back to various examples, curiosity is nothing but somebody sees a brighter idea and when a team comes together after that and if you encourage teams to perform. When you start link importance on teamwork than individual contributions. You’d rather see that there will be an environment when yes, somebody may come with a brilliant idea, but idea to be converted into some actionables or how do you convert ideas into something which is meaningful and that could be, that could benefit a greater good of all other human beings. I think that’s where you’ll need people who are good at execution. It could be somebody who converts an idea into a program, somebody who develops that idea into a product. Somebody who develops that idea into a detailed group of concepts that can later lead to an innovation and product. So let’s start that you had an idea and you would have a success.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:10:50]:
The very next thing, it’s a journey and I do believe like it’s if you all follow a game of cricket. Everybody cannot be a batsman. Everybody has a role. You will see some people are very good as a batsman. There are some ballers, there are some specialists who will do the cat keeping. There will be specialists who would also be good at batting or bowling and are good at fielding. It would be a collective effort, end of the day, a team that does great or that harmonizes the synergies of all the members are the ones who would have greater success. So that’s the way I look at it.

Sanjog Aul [00:11:31]:
So question for you. When you have an idea, that could make people curious to figure out how to make it work but then there could also be a raw form of curiosity which could lead to ideas because a lot of people take pride in taking an idea and moving it to a real life product or solution or capability but a lot of companies struggle with innovation, which essentially is that people are not looking at anything, which seems to be very obvious, but start asking why and go through those different nooks and corners to figure out what’s going on. Which could then be the basis of the ideas that could come about. How much of either is happening in organization? Do you allow people to literally say, okay, this is not just you have to I give you an order or I give you an idea and you go for that but you make people curious inherently so that they become the source of ideas which could then lead to greater, better capabilities and innovations.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:12:41]:
I do believe it would be a mix and match of both and it will differ for an individual to an individual because curiosity is not something which is a binary thing and Sanjog you did see, people who are not curious, would be disengaged. Would be uninterested and people who know overly curious may become nosy. So how do you manage it?

Kalpesh Doshi [00:13:05]:
So that is where organizations will have to work to ensure that, yes, you encourage ideas but I’ve also seen that at times there is a rush for idea and that makes it look the overall speeds quite freezing. I think classic example is, let’s say everybody has seen how mobiles have evolved. When we had keypad as one of the primary input mechanisms and all the phones.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:13:34]:
We also saw that people came up with all brilliant ideas, assuming that you would never have a mobile without a keypad. Keypad was considered as something which is the and it kept innovating only around that. So there is also concept talking, more lighting. So we always say that we go for the best idea and the second best, third best, fourth best, nobody cares about it. So we know who was the first person to land in the moon but second, third, fourth, nobody cares about it. So it’s also that concept Which are the ideas that you have to cultivate and organizations that are good at identifying ideas that are worthy enough of being cultivated and then encouraging them to take forward that it’s like a seed. You nurture that idea, you nurture that thought, you enable, with good mentors, you enable them with good brainstorming and you see really how it evolves. I think idea on itself seldom, creates an outcome.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:14:42]:
If it is has to do that, it takes a lot of time. The beauty of organization today is that there are a lot of tools, a lot of processes that encourages collaboration, that encourages people to come together, diverse people to come together and I do believe that if this curiosity as a skill or as a trade has put to good use, we will see the space of innovation will improve significantly. So that’s my take on this.

Sanjog Aul [00:15:16]:
So while you spoke about building a culture of curiosity, which Itself requires some more time along the runway. Small little things and large changes, both small and large changes to be brought about for that culture to gain ground and then everyone generally starts becoming more curious than usual but while that is work in progress, we still have some people who are curious. Not to the point where you said they become counterproductive but if people are healthily curious while you are in the process of building a culture, how could that passion, that zeal be channelized so that it sparks curiosities in the others who are in the organization?

Kalpesh Doshi [00:16:03]:
I think that’s a brilliant question and I’m sure a lot of leaders today are trying to figure out on how do we tap the potentials because you never know where the next brilliant idea is sitting. I’ll give you an example of the mobiles. Are we saying that in those days nobody would have come out and said, hey guys, why have a keypad? Why not think of a mobile without a keypad? The answer is yes, somebody would have really come out even then but that idea was obviously not taken seriously for various reasons. So I do believe there is no easy answer to this because humans would always be taking certain calls. These are certain rational as they deem it appropriate at that time but organization, what really happens. I’ve seen one thing.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:16:53]:
When organizations are really small or when they follow a startup culture, they are very open to ideas. They are very agile, they’re very flexible and they’re very adaptable to the marketplace to bring about innovations. Whereas organizations grow in size or as establish a significant share in the market. That’s where I wouldn’t call complacency but that’s where the inertia sets in and that’s where you see that people then starts building those blocks that this is exactly how we have to operate and we can’t limiting on how ideas can evolve and that’s again one factor that could sense a downfall because moment, you kind of block, you put yourself in blocks that this is exactly how we are going to innovate and nothing beyond that. You’re just stopping or you’re just, you’re just killing a trade or you’re playing a trend that made you successful in first place and then you know that it’s southwards from now. So organizations will have to be on a constant lookout, help people think out of box.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:18:06]:
You’d have to have something like a shouting board. Where individuals ideas are heard. I think one of the best thing or one of the best tools we have is listening and one of the tools that we really feel as humans is again listening because active listening is something this tell them engaging. Even if you are listening to something, it’s not because we want to gain something out of it. We are always framing, okay, fine, if this is what I’m hearing, this is going to be my answer.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:18:39]:
This is going to be my question. We don’t really hear somebody to learn to expand our horizon. Many a times we just hearing something because we, it should help us to put our point of view forward. So organizations also are vulnerable to those elements and it happens anything that settles down. We always see a child when it’s born. It’s a purest form and many of us today, we do keep saying to ourselves, our kids, that when we were kids, we were the best versions of ourselves.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:19:15]:
Why, because we didn’t have inhibitions, we didn’t have those constraints. We learned a lot. When we were born, we didn’t know how to talk, we didn’t know how to see properly, we didn’t have any skills of communication but think about it. From a time you’re born to, let’s say you become a 4 year old, how much have we evolved? We essentially didn’t know anything about the world. So if you really say as we grow older, somehow we lose or we forget that we are gifted When you’re born, you could not communicate, you’re learning, you could hardly understand. You don’t even know who’s your mother and father, that relations we don’t know if you understood at that time but still you know how to survive. So if you really look at it from that perspective, something that impaired and, why do we stop that quality as we grow old and older. I think that’s a question we will have to ask ourselves and organizations will have to ask or they will have to think about it.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:20:19]:
It’s not about creating ideas, not encouraging ideas. It’s not about defining boundaries to an idea. It’s more about having that mindset that let’s be open to an idea, let’s have that discussion, let’s encourage people to think out of box. Have that culture where no question are wrong question, no question is a police question, no question is something that you should laugh about it encourage because curiosity is often, curiosity cards from questioning. A culture where questions are not taken up as challenges, questions are not being conceived as challenging the theater school or challenge the leaders out here taking questions as really questions and just thinking over it because a lot of times I have seen in my journey a lot of questions that were thrown to me, made me ponder or made me realize, yes, we are on the wrong path and we need to have a close connection. So I think those are the things we’ll have to bear in mind. I’ve listed many,

Kalpesh Doshi [00:21:20]:
as I said, there is no one silver bullet. We’ll have to look at all of it if we have to be successful but most important is as you grow, you can’t become rigid. You have to have a culture where you have to think. I think one key message is you have to think like a startup and as a startup you want to disrupt the market with innovative services. So you have to have that startup mindset throughout.

Sanjog Aul [00:21:49]:
Let’s take a quick break, listeners. We’ll be right back after these messages and let’s talk about the pace at which the life and business is moving and the fatigue it’s causing, how can we keep that spark of curiosity alive among our employees and what are the strategies that have worked? Please stay tuned. We’ll be right back.

Sanjog Aul [00:23:19]:
Welcome back. So the question here is we are all fatigued by this increasingly crazy faster pace of life and business and we also at the same time want to make sure that people are not burnt out, they have the spark of curiosity alive and everything goes way as planned. Is that even possible? How big of a challenge is it and if we have been able to crack this problem, then what strategies have worked?

Kalpesh Doshi [00:23:52]:
Okay, great question. So yes, uncertain time will create larger challenges, but what also comes with that is again a need for innovation because you know that when times are uncertain there you have to really relook at a lot of your processes. So curiosity is not only about coming out with the next brilliant idea. I’ll give you very simple, my own experience we were part of again a kind of innovation for we got a patent. We were very happy that we got a patent and what was our next immediate goal and we said that we got one patent, now we have to go for more patents and we just thought that and we, I think we made the mistake that curiosity or innovation is all about creating more patterns or creating new processes and we tried harder and we scaled, we failed, at a certain time we had to go back to the basics. Was something really wrong with us? If something was really so wrong with us, we wouldn’t have been successful, something great or no, we would haven’t been able to create the first of its kind product in its first place. So we knew we could not be all wrong.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:25:12]:
Then we realized that did we miss our path or did we lose our track right to that and then we started looking at that or when I started looking at that, I did realize that our pursuit of no, basically I cannot have an agenda that I am going to create an idea. It has to come naturally. I cannot have basically a thought which says come what will happen? I am going to have the next brilliant idea. That’s not how it would ever work. You have to be relevant to a situation and hence when organizations are going to train, when organizations are facing challenges in terms of the markets, again, innovations or ideas are going to come to the rescue. It’s not that because there is a stress, innovations are going to stop. If you really look at it, it’s during times of distress. Then even when there are more innovations, there are more ideas and we found out newer ways on how we could really change the world. So there is no perfect recipe which ever says that you would only come out on your curiosity can only be achieved or the outcomes of curiosity can only be achieved. Then you are in the more amiable conditions.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:26:36]:
It is void of the conditions a mind that’s curious will always look for solutions, will always look for answers. So anything that’s troubling them, anything that they see is something that they don’t have an answer for and during bad time, there are so many questions that don’t have answers and you will see that people really keep working on that and you will see different kind of innovations. You would see then array of hope when somebody is able to crack it and somebody is able to find that hey guys, we’re facing this, but this is a way forward for everybody going forward. I do believe every organization will have to invest in that and Sanjog, today we are in a world where you every organization is digital. If you don’t do it, there is somebody else who’s going to work on an innovation and they will displease you. So I think to think that because times are bad and we can afford not to innovate, we can afford not to encourage ideas. I think that would be a death name and that will really kill organizations.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:27:46]:
It’s like good times. You should still focus on RnD. You should focus on encouraging people. You should focus people to work on your ideas. Bad times still have to enrich people to find solutions to your problems and find ways of optimizing your resource utilization, improve efficiencies

Kalpesh Doshi [00:28:05]:
and see how you could bring an automation so that we get more from less. There will be opportunities and there will always be areas where you have to find newer ideas godless of the market or regardless the situation we are in.

Sanjog Aul [00:28:24]:
So one is to get an individual curious and let them go about do the deep sea diving but what about bringing a group together because frankly when you are trying to do any of the innovation together or any of the fact finding or digging, usually making the whole group to work together, making it one plus one equal to 11, is that realistic to expect a group to become curious far more than them individually combined?

Kalpesh Doshi [00:28:57]:
Absolutely. I do believe this would be our largest challenge for every leader and I do believe we are in a world where we have great managers and very few leaders. When you talk about curiosity. Where we are encouraging people, it will also everything as a pros and a con. When we talk about that, yes, there will be a kind of competitive spirit. There will be a rush of in terms of who comes out with the best idea

Kalpesh Doshi [00:29:25]:
and I do believe that’s where the leadership quality is getting. That’s where you need to have a leader who’s been looked on. A leader who can put a diverse team together, still encourages people to challenge each other, encourages people to innovate and has a vision and is able to take the risk to put his or her back on what they perceive. This would be an idea that’s going to change the future and pursue that and I think that’s how every innovations are going to work. Innovation is not something where you can only have XYZ person nominated and say that all innovations in your organizations are going to come from them and I do believe that’s where, that’s why you need leaders in this world. A manager will follow what is documented.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:30:16]:
A manager will follow what has been taught. A manager will follow what is known in terms of best practices. You always need a leader when you have to pursue uncharted territory. You need a leader who’s willing to take that risk and you need a leader, who commits themselves for ensuring that everybody puts a goal of a group ahead of their individual goals. That’s somebody whom everybody looks up. I do believe that every organization will have to have one such inspirational leader where everybody looks up to them and that leader who himself is a visionary and you’ll see that when you have this, organizations will continue to grow and Sanjog, I know it’s better said than been done. We talk about every organization also has a lifespan.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:31:09]:
Organizations come, they grow and they disappear but organizations that are able to survive or organizations new to be the top leaders, we would see that they have come out with innovations they have completely revisited or they have completely changed what they started with and what they needed to do. A classic example would be Tata Group. They started with a steel manufacturing company in India and today it is a conglomerate of industries with diverse risk and you talk of the industry and you see their presence. So what was driving them. Why did they not think that steal is the only business we’ll earn our money from? What made them venture into new businesses? Yes, there was somebody who was encouraging the ideas. There was somebody who believed that they could do even things beyond steel. There were people who were encouraging people to think out of the box.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:32:09]:
Now, be that starting an airline or be that the fact that they own a good amount of fit for three airlines in India to do, It was a vision that Tata had to have an airline. He was not successful at that time, but that idea was nurtured for Bill Gates and today when you talk about Tata, when you talk about JRD Tata, his passion for flying, his passion, he wanted Air India, and you see, it took time. It’s a sea, a mango tree takes a lot of time to bear the fruits and it’s not instant noodles. You have to nurture. Organizations will have to invest and have stay committed on the cost. So they had it at the back of their minds, that’s an idea

Kalpesh Doshi [00:32:57]:
that’s a vision. They were curious about it and when opportunities came, not 1, 3 and 9, when you have a state, I think most of them are majority states. I think that’s how you should look at it.

Sanjog Aul [00:33:11]:
So we spoke about culture building a culture of curiosity multiple times but is there a playbook you recommend?

Kalpesh Doshi [00:33:18]:
I would believe the moment we put a playbook somewhere we’re limiting ourselves to a knowledge of a certain individuals and when I talk about curiosity it’s more about having a boundary less a mind. Which is able to pursue whatever is going to benefit. I think we may only have certain rules and those rules would be to help our, I would say help everyone in the organization to come out. It’s more about giving them a perspective also what are we working on, it’s more of awareness.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:33:53]:
I do believe we talk about the awareness when we set the context right. We have to limit to every individual then to decipher that in their own ways because every individual is unique in their own ways and I think the quest is to see how do we tap that uniqueness and convert that into basically an organization as, so from that perspective, Sanjog, we can create a playbook but I just feel that will be a limiting factor because somewhere when you create a playbook you are going to be bounded by a lot of unconscious bias from the person who’s developing that playbook and that will again limit the innovations. Give you example of mobile and keypad. So if, let’s say if I had to make deload I would already make a playbook with my limitations and understanding the fact that there are things where I see are good and things that I see bad. They are not necessarily bad, but that’s the way I see and we don’t want that to happen. When you’re talking about innovations, when you’re talking about curiosity at a workplace or we’re talking about curiosity at a scheme.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:35:05]:
It is about making sure you’re grieving the freedom, it’s matter to madness. So there will be chaos but there is again there is a kind of a pattern to chaos and we have to figure out ways and means to do that.

Sanjog Aul [00:35:20]:
One final question because of course while we get people to look at themselves, look within, try to transform themselves, give them a culture but it all starts perhaps, oh, there’s a lot depending on the kind of leadership mindset and the leadership style and the leadership ways of working which would make or break the potential of an organization become curious at scale. So what changes or what prerequisites, if you will, you recommend for leaders to embrace so that they can make this dream a reality.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:35:57]:
I do believe Albert Einstein had mentioned and he said I have no special talent. It’s just that, I have a highly curious mind. I think that kind of sums up right and prior topic of curiosity. Albert Einstein has been credited for a lot of innovations and he attributed all of that to a curious mindstank, of curious mind. So as leaders that we have to understand that every individual has a potential of coming out with an idea that’s going to change the world. It’s how much are we going to encourage? It’s how much about we giving them the right culture, as leaders, it’s more about active listening. As is

Kalpesh Doshi [00:36:41]:
leaders have to listen and great leaders, successful people have a streak. Where they listen to people, they listen to the market they are constantly trying to grab, they’re trying to learn. They’re trying to see what is that going to take us to the next level or what is it that’s going to give them a next breakout. So leaders will have to continue investing in terms of that thought process. Encourage a culture where questions are welcome. I know we typically in corporates we get into meetings and moment we have a question, we come out saying let’s take it offline and we all understand what does that mean? Offline means we don’t encourage questions. Yes, maybe a positive time, but we’ll have to find out ways where we don’t have to take things offline. I think every individual has a role. No question is a bad question

Kalpesh Doshi [00:37:38]:
but in encouraging people it needs to change. Even at the school level or at the university level, asking questions is not bad. Maybe we have a fear of not knowing an answer. So two ways asking question is not bad. Not knowing an answer is equally not bad. So I think we need to change, we need to change that Y state that question is asked do I always have to have an answer and it’s humanly impossible. So we have to accept that there will be a lot of times I may not have an answer and it’s absolutely fine. Nobody judges anybody on that and samely, when you’re asking, there is no bad question. Every question is a question and if you start thinking why that person is saying what it is saying and you start realizing that there is a pattern and you will understand the beauty of that would be we are all limited or we are all conditioned. We have been brought up or the way we have been thinking in a certain manner

Kalpesh Doshi [00:38:41]:
but when we open our minds or when we start putting things or look at things from others perspective, we’ll be amazed with the fact on how many more doors are we opening and how are we expanding our own horizons to achieve greater heights. So I think that would be my suggestion. I’m sure leaders have figured out their own needs and needs. Yes. I always believe leadership is all about taking chances, taking the risk. It’s all about the uncharted. I encourage teams to try and I can tell you with all my experience and I always maintain that you try and you fail is 100 times better than not trying and not feeling at all because if somebody says I have never failed, my largest concern or my largest worry would be have they even tried because if you have not, prior is a question of failing.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:39:35]:
and every failure is the greatest lesson. One can have in the lifetimes. I have failed a lot. Look, if you really ask me, I had a very humble beginning in terms of my education. I didn’t have, I didn’t figure out a way of how I’m going to build my career

Kalpesh Doshi [00:39:52]:
but there were challenges, there were issues, but I was confident or I had that fire in me that I’m going to find out of me. I have to find a path forward and you keep on working hard on virus. That’s how it should.

Sanjog Aul [00:40:06]:
Once again, thank you so much, Kalpesh for sharing your insights about this very interesting topic which is enabling curiosity at scale. Thank you so much.

Kalpesh Doshi [00:40:16]:
Thanks for having me here and I will look forward.

Sanjog Aul [00:40:19]:
Thanks so much and listeners, please like us on social media, subscribe to our podcast. Once again, thank you for listening to CTN. This is your host, Sanjog Aul. Till next week, take care and god bless.

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