In today’s challenging business environment, team cohesion drives innovation, productivity, and overall success. What strategies, tools, and techniques leaders can employ to create a culture of collaboration, trust, and unity within their organizations?

Contributor

• • Sreeji Gopinathan, Global CIO, Lupin

Transcipt

Sanjog Aul [00:00:00]:
Hello and welcome to CTN. To learn more about this show, please visit ciotalknetwork.com and the topic for today, it’s an interesting one. Cracking The Synergy Code To Unlock Team Cohesion. Well, so we have a very challenging and an interesting business environment. A lot of things are shifting. New technologies are coming, business models, customer expectations, all are kind of becoming. There’s a lot of variability in that. And at the same time, we have to make sure that we want our team to be able to think differently, innovate, be very productive and bring success.

Sanjog Aul [00:00:42]:
So what essential strategies, tools and techniques leaders are employing today or looking to employ today to create that culture of collaboration and trust and unity within their organization because there is a bigger task at hand. So our guest for today is Sreeji Gopinathan, Global Chief Information Officer with Lupin. Hey, Sree, how are you?

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:01:07]:
Hey, Sanjog. I’m good, thanks. How are you?

Sanjog Aul [00:01:10]:
Very good. Glad to have you. Now, as I mentioned about the topic, of course, people talk about team building all the time and bringing people together and culture. So there is no dearth of discussions that have happened on it. Well, what we are looking at today is individually and collectively, there is some jitters on multiple fronts when it comes to team thinking and an individual thinking within that team, whether they are safe or what to expect next or maybe there is too much on my plate or I didn’t sign up for it. So when we have such an environment, if you were to identify the top, most critical factor which would lead to team cohesion, which is them working together and at the same time bringing innovation within the organization, what would that be?

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:02:06]:
Yeah, thanks, Sanjog, for having me here and thanks for the question. So there are many different factors that will play out when it comes to having a cohesive team and a collaborative effectiveness in an organization that I think like open communication, having the common objectives very clearly set and leading by example and things like that but if I were to really pick out the most critical factor, as you asked, in fostering team cohesion, then that in my mind is without a doubt, trust. If we are able to create an ecosystem where there is trust among the people, trust among the leadership, which then flows down into the organization where the vision is very clear, the common objectives are very clear, and people are able to understand each other, communicate each other and share ideas, and create a safe ecosystem where the risk that needs to be taken to achieve those common objectives is a collective risk and the collective risk can be taken only if there is open Communication based on credible trust. Yeah, so that’s the most important point I would say, which is essential to drive team cohesion in any type of organization. Now you also touched upon on unlocking innovation. So as I said, if there are common objectives, and usually the objectives in any organization is going to be challenging.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:03:37]:
And if you are to achieve those, you need all the different subject matter experts, you need the business experts to come together to formulate an effective plan and then put together an action list to achieve those. Now how do you do that? So let’s say we want to launch a new startup in our. Even through similar exercise here in my organization, we are already 50 plus year old company, but then we wanted to start a new business and how do you do that? This itself is a DNA question. Starting startup in an established organization, it can happen only if you bring the right people who are able to sit down and jog through the plan in a manner where it is related to an open communication. And that open communication comes because of trust. When that happens, all the creative ideas are put on the table. So this was about creating a care platform based on the pharma background that we have now to create that care platform. Just the doctor

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:04:34]:
input or just the IT guys, input is not enough. There are service practitioners in their health care practitioners in their ambulance service providers in there. A lot of different ecosystem players were there. Now how do you bring the needs of all these different stakeholders into a common set of objectives that we want to achieve, brainstorm on them, create the right technology platforms, microservices based architecture and open source system as much as possible to keep the cost low and things like that but of course in a very secure manner, but also very clearly understand what the doctor is expecting out of that, or a patient is expecting out of that, or a caregiver is expecting out of that. That comes together, that innovation, that a new product creation can happen only if people come together and discuss based on the thrust that I talk of.

Sanjog Aul [00:05:24]:
So very interestingly you use the word trust, but if you notice, trust is also an outcome of a number of things that need to be in place or have to happen for trust to develop. And trust is also a living organism. It could reduce and it could also increase. So when you look in the environment that we have today, where people are coming and going, whether it is layoffs or people are doing mergers and acquisition or people are folding, I mean there are so much flux. And the people who need to trust businesses don’t trust businesses, people trust people. But when there is A flux. Well, when new set of people come, there is no trust and you need to have them start working with each other and before you know it, yet another disruption happens.

Sanjog Aul [00:06:10]:
So this very fundamental building block that you mentioned, how are you able to keep this living organism healthy at an individual one on one level and also at a group and an organizational level?

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:06:24]:
Yeah, it’s a very interesting point, Sanjog. We are living in a very dynamic world. Whether it is large organization, medium or small organization, there’s a lot of changes happening but the foundation of an organization is always determined by the leadership and the vision that the leadership has laid out and if that vision is very clear, of course the vision is also not something that is etched on the stone. Businesses learn, businesses adapt and they change because the ecosystem out there, the competitiveness out there is going to keep you on your toes. So that adaptive of the leader who’s leading this organization, whether it is in a large company or whether it is a startup, whether it is a proprietorship, doesn’t matter. If that leadership is able to hold that overall vision together and the basic DNA of the organization together, then the state of flux can be dealt with to a certain extent.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:07:21]:
Of course there will be parameters that will be brought into because of certain behaviors and characters of the different people that come in but you know, what I have seen in my career is that even if that is the case, if the constant which is still remaining in the organization, whatever that constant is in leadership, plus the people who are working for that leader, they are pretty clear on how to conduct the organization, how to go about doing certain stuff, how to engage with the different stakeholders externally, internally, the people who are coming in slowly fold into the way of working. Now I have seen the other way around as well. There were problems in the way that certain organization work or certain teams work and when there is fresh blood coming in, they sort of have the freedom to sort of bring it up and up saying that, okay, these are the problems that I’m seeing. That engagement, that open communication also has helped actually mold the DNA, existing DNA and the existing mechanisms in the organization move for the better. So I think in a way what I’m saying is that state of flux, that little bit of people movement, new blood coming in, new thoughts coming in, in the end, it can be channeled to become a good thing for the organization.

Sanjog Aul [00:08:39]:
And I mean, your response is spot on. I just wanted to understand that when you have a very fast moving train and you want new people to jump on the train, you can’t just allow that train to slow down, you got to get people on that train through some other mechanism and without the right amount of trust, we will actually impact the whole train. So the point I’m trying to make is when these new people are trying to come in and I like your idea about giving them the freedom to point out things, that gives them the freedom, that gives them the psychological safety, perhaps that these guys are now going to say this question was dumb or this idea was dumb. Everything is welcome. So that is a starting point. But does that introduce trust between them and the people who are already on a fast moving train, that they embrace these new set of people, how do you bring the trust? These guys would like to be trusted, but how do you make the people who are on that fast moving train who feel that there is so much invested in what they’ve already done and they don’t want a rookie to come in and try to slow things down or mess things up. How do you instill trust in them about these new people who are coming in?

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:09:49]:
Yeah, so I mean, I myself have been in that kind of situation since the current organization. I’m here for four years. So I came into a running setup and I’m part of the leadership to drive a lot of common objectives. So what I’ve seen is a good majority of the people, including leadership and other people were actually, and I was coming from a completely different sector and I have seen this happening for other colleagues as well. So they were actually very open and asking me proactive questions in many instances. How did you address this distribution problem or how did you address this in a manufacturing related issue or the supply chain issue in your previous sector? I mean, even though that sector was different, the basic principles of sales and distribution or manufacturing or supply chain remains the same.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:10:38]:
How did you address it? I mean, so can you bring some fresh perspective into. A good majority of the people wanted to hear a different perspective compared to how this organization has been running. Not that it was broken, but they were open to, you know, newer ideas. But there is always a minority who is skeptical and then it is the new persons or the newbies responsibility to engage with, with those kind of fence sitters, if I may say so, and engage and understand what their thought processes, what their goals are and how can you become useful for them and maybe offer, offer yourself to achieve those wherever needed without creating the impression that you’re trying to step on the effort but enabling that. So technology, I’m a technology person in an organization. In many instances there are people, leaders who want to leverage it. But there are, in many other instances it is seen as sometimes, yeah, I mean, I can do without that as well. But then how do you create that proof points? It could be as simple as automating a simple thing which is very complicated using a robotic process automation.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:11:43]:
We have done that in our sales organization where the pricing competitive analysis was done only once a year, which actually is not enough because it’s such a complicated exercise. We went ahead and automated that with robotic process automation and hence they are able to do in a much more frequent manner. So those early proof points engagements, understanding what their pain points are and how you can contribute towards alleviating those pain points can create a positive environment even with those kind of difficult stakeholders that you might have. So yeah, it isn’t. There is no perfect answer. There is no magic ball to this. The engagement, offering yourself up, creating credibility for yourself, sharing your experiences, showing a learning attitude towards what is happening in the organization so that you are also understanding how to delve into that work culture and the work groups. That is going to be very important in order to get the trust of those people who are already moving very fast in the organization.

Sanjog Aul [00:12:43]:
Now so what about the middle management or even upper management and they’re supposed to report to the board. They can’t throw their hands in the air to say, hey, we are trying, but it’s less than perfect. Is that what people at the top buy?

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:12:55]:
No, I mean, I think you mean in terms of engaging with the new people that is coming in.

Sanjog Aul [00:13:00]:
See, for them, business results matter and of course there is a new breed of leadership who are very empathetic by design, but they will only go so far because on the other side they also have to report to the stock market and or other parameters that they have. So when you see this constant flux and they might on one side of their mind might be thinking, you know what this is we can’t control but on the other side, they have a business reality. They have their own performance appraisals and bonuses attached to it, just as that of business reality and when you’re trying to deal with people issues, those are usually fuzzy. I don’t think so anyone can go and claim that by this date I will instill trust in these people. Whereas the business results require or demand a timeline.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:13:41]:
No, so I mean the. Sorry, did you finish?

Sanjog Aul [00:13:45]:
Yeah. So I was basically trying to understand that how do you juggle the two. On one hand you have fuzzy. On the other hand there is a specific ask.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:13:55]:
So I mean the stock market, the investors, the business, the quarterly results, monthly, month closing, none of those waits for any of these things. We need to go through that. I think it is to be seen as one and the same problem the moment we look at it, okay, we are running, we are in a running train. We have to get from point A to point B. With so much filled into that in terms of the outcome, I don’t have time for new people then that just doesn’t work because that kind of issue happens only when there are very freshers who are probably going to learn the ropes with daily coaching but when it comes to even a one year old, two year old experienced person these days, they actually come with quite some energy and experience and knowledge that they start becoming productive rather quicker is what I’m seeing and the patience levels as you are hinting at is not that high and hence the decisions

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:14:51]:
if somebody is not able to gel in at least within a quarter and start showing the impact, there will be certain repercussions that you will see in the organization. So that luxury is not there anymore. People have less patience but when there is capacity available in the form of new people or little bit experienced new people, let’s say the capacity can be put to use by the existing people to influence those outcomes in one possible way. So let’s talk about regional sales manager in the east of our country trying to influence and the growth in that region, okay? And he is missing a couple of area managers. Getting that area manager in is actually going to be help for him rather than a distraction. So in that scenario he will openly accept the person who is coming in who can actually manage that particular area in a much more detailed manner rather than the manager, the leader, the regional manager himself, trying to get his neck into everything. Similarly, in a technology world, if you are trying to

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:15:53]:
let’s say a specific example that I can take which I’ve gone through in the last year is creating a data lake. I need data engineers, I need data scientists to go through that but if I don’t have the right capacity and right capability, then the momentum and the speed that I need to achieve is not going to be enough to deliver the outcomes that I’m trying to achieve and it is not just IT or a digital outcome, it’s a business outcome that I’m trying to drive. So when I am getting that data scientist in, even if it is a couple of years experienced person, that is not just capability but also capacity which will help me increase the throughput, there will be a little bit of extra effort needed to bring them on board in terms of the use cases or the processes that I’m trying to drive but in the end, over that one month, two month time period, that extra effort is going to pay and help you deliver those outcomes in a much better quality way, but also not putting the existing people through so much stress where they are going to put in a lot of hours. So that’s the way I think it happens in reality.

Sanjog Aul [00:16:55]:
Let’s take a quick break listeners. We’ll be right back and I’d like to build upon your last comments. Sreeji, so we said if a new person comes and the person doesn’t gel with the larger ship, we lose patience or we make some decisions. But frankly, the person who is trying to build trust with and relationships with the larger group, they are more motivated than the people who are already there within that group because for them a new person could be a nuisance or just extra work so who should be on the hook? The larger group or that individual in terms of building trust? Please stay tuned. We’ll be right back.

Sanjog Aul [00:17:46]:
Each week on CTN CIO Talk Network IT thought leaders from around the world share share their experience with listeners as they discuss with sunjoke all how they are trimming costs and partnering with business to innovate and help it become more competitive, better care for customers and improve the corporate bottom line. If you want to keep up with it thought leadership, listen to CTN CIO Talk Network with Sunjoke all@ciotalknetwork.com foreign you are listening to CTN CIO Talk Network With Sun Joe Gaul. To learn more about our program, please visit CIO talknetwork.com Now back to the show. Welcome back. And so Sriji, I hope you get my point about building trust with the responsibility of that group. Actually logically should be more than that individual who is trying or he or she will be trying to gel together with the rest of the group. So how do you, I just hope like you see where I’m going with this.

Sanjog Aul [00:18:59]:
Welcome back and so Sreeji, I hope you get my point about building trust with the responsibility of that group. Actually logically should be more than that individual who is trying or he or she will be trying to gel together with the rest of the group. So how do you, I just hope like you see where I’m going with this.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:18:59]:
Yeah, no, I absolutely get you. I mean at the end of the day, the organization, existing leadership, existing drivers of different functions, businesses are the people who are on the hook. A newcomer always has, you know, let’s call it a honeymoon period where he has, he has to learn the ropes within this current organization before he can actually start delivering results but it is not just about the results, it is about the attitude and it’s about the approach that an individual brings that has to start showing the positive signs within, I mean, I would say as early as possible and once, once they’ve got a little bit of hang of how things happen in a couple of months, that should not show any negative believers. That’s what I meant by that earlier, that attitude, that approach. Even if there is an issue in terms of the actual content of the work or the subject matter, related work, that’s okay. People will be happy to give that lending hand and go through some of the early mistakes that individual might make. That’s all fine.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:20:04]:
But if the intent is right, if the approach is right, if the attitude is right, I don’t see that issue happening but if these things are not okay, if you miss the learning or the, how do you say, the hunger to get that new learning and capability for that individual, and then that is going to rub the people, including the leadership, in the wrong way and hence it can create issues. So I’ll probably like quote a book that I read some time ago. It’s called the Ideal Team Player, written by Patrick Lincione, here in that book, Patrick says the three characteristics that is needed to be a solid team player, that person has to be humble, that person has to be hungry.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:20:44]:
Hungry can also mean ambitious and also that person has to be smart. Yeah, I mean, that person cannot come with an absolute sort of thought process or a behavior. But the smartness should be able to combine the humble nature and the hunger or the ambition together with understanding how do you operate in that new organization or the setup that person has been put into so that the cohesiveness can be catalyzed by this person’s interest as well. Of course, coming back to your original question, the hook is going to be with the leadership, existing leadership, existing people who are there who are supposed to deliver those outcomes.

Sanjog Aul [00:21:20]:
So, Sreeji, this is what we see when we are trying to work on team cohesion or the quality of team building that exists. We give it some sort of a ranking or it is also a fuzzy ranking at times. Say, yeah, I have a good team versus I have a team that rocks and you know what? I could not get a better team than this. Well, these are subjective measures and what you can’t measure objectively, you can’t improve. So if you were truly banking on the team cohesion so that you’re able to do bigger, better things, that means there has to be some effort put in and there has to be ideally some numerical value that could be placed on saying, this is where my team stands today and when I work on it in certain ways and tomorrow when I’m going to measure again, it’s going to stand at. It’ll move from point A to point B of maturity of cohesion.

Sanjog Aul [00:22:13]:
Has that been approached in that measurably impactful manner, all your efforts to build those teams?

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:22:23]:
I wouldn’t say it is sort of a scientific numeric measurement methodology that is used, at least in my case, but we do have a mechanism where we look at team performances and the individual performances and how is that done? That is done by measuring against the smart objectives the specific measurable, actionable, etc. Objectives that we set for the organization, which is actually waterfall down from the organization vision and goals. Once that is set for a three year roadmap, which is then taken down to one year targets and quarterly targets and everything else, the measurement of the actual outcomes is against those smart objectives. And those smart objectives is not always about building a top line or improving the bottom line or increasing the productivity. But also it is about continuous learning measures. It is also about whether we are able to deliver the outcomes within the specified time. It’s also about whether we have employed the newest and the greatest technologies that we want to leverage.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:23:34]:
See all that underlying measures that I’m talking about can happen only if there is a cohesive team play that is happening. Whenever, let’s say we are creating a new platform and you go and create that platform in the way that infrastructure had likes to do rather than a cohesive approach created by the infrastructure team, the application team, the database team, in a product team, who owns the end product that is being taken to the market. We are not going to be able to deliver a performing solution out to the market. Now that performing solution outcome is having an underlying measure of a high performing team as well. That’s what I’m trying to say. So it’s not about the measures like has this person taken this many certificate? Has this person helped another person work in something? Has this person engaged with the cross functional teams? Those are softer ways of measuring which is very difficult to measure and it has a lot of subjectivity associated with the person who is measuring as well and hence the measurement of the effectiveness of an individual and a team has to be linked with the actual smart objectives, which is basically the goals the organization is set out for.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:24:46]:
So that is how we measure and that’s how the individual performance ratings are done as well and that’s how the flexible benefits accrue for those individuals as well. So that’s how we manage this.

Sanjog Aul [00:24:59]:
So I Will give you a perspective which comes from leadership, like being a student of leadership. So the traditional method of anything that is managing by outcomes

Sanjog Aul [00:25:10]:
to some extent. That’s what you mentioned, that if you’re, you got specific objectives which is met, that means that team is doing what it is supposed to. Now the school of leadership says that yes, you got to build or get your objectives met, but you also have to build leaders and you have to build good employees and good teams in the process. So if the only measure remains objective, that second objective could be shadowed because then the actual effort that needs to go into building these leaders individually and make them as a team of leaders who take charge and then bring you the objectives, it could fall by the wayside or it may not get that focus, which is essentially what eventually will get you the objectives met and make it all look good. So how do you handle this predicament because of the lack of objective measure in how well a team has been formed and how is it performing?

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:26:13]:
Yeah, so at the end of the day when I talk about the actual smart objectives and the goals that has to be met, that gets broken down into different components. Which has the actual business deliverable, which has resource matrices, roles and responsibilities, skills and capabilities, individual development plans, rewards and recognition and embracing new technology and new ways of doing stuff. All of those are sub matrices of what I talked about. But we don’t start with that is what I’m saying. Promoting these objectives just for the sake of those having those matrices or measures in place does not yield an outcome and it becomes difficult to manage when we, when we keep running on that kind of measures for a certain period of time. When the company leadership, the team leadership, business leadership and even your own team members see whatever these underlying measures that we are measuring that I listed just now is actually contributing towards actual outcome of the company. That’s when the motivation kicks in for the leader and for the people.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:27:30]:
Without that connect, it usually fizzles out and becomes an academic exercise, which actually does not help is what I’m trying to say.

Sanjog Aul [00:27:41]:
So when we are now looking at the people, you got some measures in place and you are managing by objectives and you clarified that all of those smart goals and objectives kind of take care of that leadership element and the individual’s growth element. So that is great that you’re doing this. Now what we have also seen is while we want to have these people work towards the objectives that the business has, there is so much change that is happening. You can’t put a square peg in a Round hole or you can’t use your 2019 techniques or approaches or strategies for 2023 and 2024 is even going to be faster. So the same team which yesterday was effective and they might gel very well, but the skill set, the skill mix, the way they operate could potentially require changing for them to work at their maximum capacity. So which means you are rebuilding a plane while flying it. How do you do that?

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:28:48]:
This is a constant challenge that technologists have. You might have seen technology transformation happening again and again in a particular organization. I myself have gone through that in my previous organization. I’ll give you an example of one of my previous organization where Data Lake sort of was a relatively new thing those days. We started creating that using a particular platform which was offered by an already established company in the industry. We created that, we pushed the data sets in, we created the data models, we started driving the outcomes. But then by the time we did all of that, it was already 18 to 24 months down the line and there were new technologies out there in the market. So competition, who has started later than us started working on those new technologies driving better outcomes.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:29:38]:
Now the pressure starts building from the business as well, backward to us. Why are we not able to push this particular nudge for my sales guy on the ground who is trying to engage with the store in a particular fashion, which my competition is doing but we are in a much worse off situation because we adopted a outdated technology. So and that’s why this, the modern day approach, which is about keeping this as modular as possible, keeping microservices architecture as possible, keeping cloudability and portability and interoperability between the different backend solutions are needed. All of that has to be built with a forward compatible looking strategy so that the adaptability of your organization is possible with the moving ecosystem. I took a technology example because technology is what actually disrupts a lot of businesses and poses a lot of new challenges with the organization who is actually probably leader now and then somebody comes and challenges them. So usually technology is the one who is disrupting that.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:30:46]:
So if you think through this, if you have created an architecture in such a way that you can adapt very quickly, then this problem that you talked about can be dealt with very effectively.

Sanjog Aul [00:30:58]:
For us to work on these other people like our team members, get them all working. How are we building the new chops that our own mid management and senior management need? Because if that was that easy or there is no revelation or there is no enlightenment that is automatically coming to these people, right? And we want the team to be handled differently. There are a lot of moving charts. So who is training the trainer or who is getting these people involved so that they can work on the teams and make them what they could be?

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:31:31]:
Yeah, so I mean this is something which is driven not just internally. So there are plans that we create for continuous learning in our organization, which is actually a combination of external experts working with us, but also a project driven or need based requirements that comes on the table which gets taken up. So that’s one part of how we address this. The second part of this is there is always a outside in effort that we do by bringing in the so called experts from the industry because our thoughts are limited by what we are seeing, what we’re doing and even though we understand our company, our system, our processes, how we supply products to the market, how we manufacture products, even though we are masters of what we do, we are also limited by what we do and hence that outside in perspective of bringing in the experts, it could be a peer organization from a different sector, it could be consultants, it could be certain subject matter experts in area who can actually come and engage with us. And we have conducted those kind of workshops.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:32:41]:
So when we started our digital transformation journey a couple of years ago, we actually had multiple experts coming in and talking to our leadership and other key players in terms of what in the consultants language, it is the art of the possible. What is the art of the possible? So we took almost three, four months to go through that and open up our minds and thoughts a little bit. There are possibilities, power, possibly beyond what we are doing now. And then the smartness then after that is about filtering that down and seeing, okay, what is actually relevant for us. Can we do inside out brainstorming for this particular business, in this particular market, or for this particular plan that we are trying to deal with. What are the throughput enhancements that we can do? What is the new market that I can capture that kind of inside out? Challenges are also put in place and then these two are broad and in many instances the capabilities might be missing for addressing certain areas and there you sort of go into a build, operate, transfer model, in many cases, not exactly in that way, but you use those external expertise to help you get off the board, get the internal team, go through the learning process and then sort of build a center of expertise internally to deal with those new capabilities that needs to be addressed.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:34:02]:
So most organization in the last couple of years would have gone through it as far as data science is concerned. A lot of people say that they have Done a lot of data oriented work, but when you scratch the surface you will see it’s probably enterprise bi related reporting and dashboarding work that is needed. And hence the organization needs actual capability to come in, coach and get some of the early use cases delivered. And then you attract better talent from the market to come and be party to delivering the larger vision or the goals that we set out in that area. So data science is probably a hot area for this kind of example. So that’s how we deal with this.

Sanjog Aul [00:34:43]:
So since we have multi generational workforce, we have distributed workforce, we have disruptions in the way work was conducted and going to be conducted. We got so many variables in the way where all of that impacts how people work. And you mentioned that at all point we will have to measure in some form or fashion, but to not react once something bad happens or something good happens and be proactive. Which means people have started and have always been trying to provide recognitions and rewards and the carrot and stick and the command and control and the empathy. All of these formulas or recipes are being tried. So if you were to propose recipe, which is your view, which will allow that team cohesion and create the kind of culture where we are talking where each individual is super motivated to do absolutely best to deliver the value but also maximize their own potential, what would work or what is working for you and where are you taking it so that you take it to its maximum potential work?

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:35:55]:
Okay, let me start with some of the typical qualities that is needed to achieve that kind of well oiled machine. In terms of team cohesion, the real teamwork actually requires very tangible and specific behaviors of people. And when I say people, it is not just the executioners, it is also the people who are the think tank and the leaders and the visionaries in the organization. It has to be there across the board. I started off by saying the most important factor is trust and I would add a little bit more and I actually borrow this again from Patrick. As I mentioned earlier, he has explained that also concept in a very nice way in another book of his called the five dysfunctions of a team. It actually should be vulnerability based trust.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:36:43]:
What does it mean? People are different in their own ways. People have their strengths, their weaknesses, their capabilities. They are not so good behavior and aspects and things like that. So how do you look at the positive side of who brings what to the table and actually focus on that so that you are allowing that individual to be rebel in their own way but then look at the positive contribution that individual can bring towards that collective outcome that the team is wanting to achieve. So that’s one area and that happens by promotion of open communication, putting ideas on the table, challenging people, irrespective of whether senior or junior, but never trying to prove I am right or you are wrong or who is right but what is right for the common objectives is the right question that you should always bring back to the table

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:37:40]:
and when that happens, the second aspect of that, like vulnerability based trust, when that happens, putting what is right for the organization, even if there is differences of opinion, it will actually result in conflict, but it will actually be a healthy conflict. We are trying to solve the problem, we are not trying to prove, okay, my proposal is better than your proposal or what I am saying is right as opposed to what we are trying to solve together is right for the organization. So vulnerability based trust will enable people to throw their ideas, approaches, thoughts in a very safe, psychologically safe manner, which will actually result in a lot of discussions, conversation, collaboration, conflicts, but healthy conflicts. What that then is active commitment from people. When that happens, when everybody is party to that, everybody’s opinions has been heard, if somebody’s opinion is not taken into consideration, they are able to understand that is for the common objective. There is something better on the table that draws active commitment from all the different stakeholders into that common objective that then helps you create at all levels of the organization accountability. And accountability is not just me being accountable to my boss, but peer to peer accountability. I need to develop a particular solution.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:39:08]:
I need to go and sell a product in this market. I need to make sure that the product reaches the particular distributor in time. But for that other moving parts of the organization has to work with you. And if they have to work with you, then there has to be peer to peer accountability. It cannot always be that I go to my manager, then talks to the other person’s manager and then the information comes down and hence the commitment comes. No, the active commitment will drive peer to peer accountability and escalation is a good thing. When something is stuck, when something is not moving, escalation is about in untangling the mess that the team would have got into

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:39:47]:
and the leadership can get involved, external experts can be brought in whatever the situation is. A peer to peer accountability should be about solving the problem. And all of this together, vulnerability based trust, the healthy conflict and the collaboration and the active commitment which comes out of it, which also then makes people accountable to each other, will ensure that the focus is always on the result for the organization. This is very important focus on result for the organization, no department, no individual wins. It’s the organization that wins. You would have seen a very nice video somewhere. There is the hand rowing boat.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:40:31]:
Three people are facing towards the right, three people are facing towards the left. All of them rowing, three rowing towards the right, three growing towards the left. What happens there is it slightly moves to the side where the three people are stronger than the other three. But the amount of momentum that gets created, the amount of movement that happens is very small. Whereas if all six of them are rowing in synchronized manner with that peer to peer accountability, with active commitment, trusting each other, then the focus on results for the organization will be there and those organizations are the ones who make it big and win in the market.

Sanjog Aul [00:41:13]:
So thank you so much Sreeji for this insightful discussion that we had. I think we did talk about some very specific areas where the synergy crow code needs to be cracked and we could unlock that team cohesion and I like the way you, in very succinct manner put that. It’s not about me, you or a department. It’s all about where the organization needs to go and let everybody focus on that. So thank you so much.

Sreeji Gopinathan [00:41:42]:
Thank you very much, Sanjog. Thanks for having me.

Sanjog Aul [00:41:46]:
And listeners, please connect with us on social media, subscribe to our podcast. Once again, thank you for listening to ctn. This is your host, Sanjog Aul. Till next week, take care and god bless.

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