With frequent external and organizational disruptions, shifting consumer demand, and cybersecurity risks higher than ever—how are the CIOs planning to support their businesses stay resilient, flexible, and agile and make the most of the year 2020?
Contributors

• • Nafees Ahmed, Chief Information Officer, India Bulls Housing Finance Ltd.
  • Carol Fawcett, Corporate Vice President and Chief Information Officer, Golden State Foods

Download Podcast
Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, Pandora, iHeartRadio, SoundCloud, TuneIn, and Stitcher. Find other syndication channels here or search CIO Talk Network podcast on any other app.
Explore More

• Encourage Board Members to Get Onboard With Cybersecurity
• Protect Your Company by Shoring Up Your Cyber Defenses
• Security and Agility – Tips for Getting the Best of Both Worlds
• Tackling Technology’s Diversity Challenges & Opportunities
• IT-OT Integration
• Why Cybersecurity is important for Business Growth
• Trick or Treat – Don’t Get Tricked by Bad Actors
• Fight with What You Have
• Transforming Security Operating Model

Transcript

Sanjog Aul [00:00:22]:

Hello, and, welcome to this segment on CTN. To learn more, please visit ciotalknetwork.com. And the topic for today is CIO Agenda 2020. With, such disruptions happening at organizational level and in terms of where the customers want to go with their approaches and demands on how they live their life and do business. And then you have the cybersecurity threats hitting the roof and people are totally sometimes feeling helpless. What’s going on? A lot of different shifts. What are CIOs doing to tackle this uncertainty, this volatility, and many other areas of complexity while allowing the business to move forward, to become resilient, to stay flexible and agile, and make the most of this year 2020 ahead of us. So to discuss this, I have with me, Nafees Ahmed, who’s the CIO with IndiaBulls Housing Finance. Hey, Nafees. How are you?

Nafees Ahmed [00:01:26]:

I am fine.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:28]:

Thank you so much for helping us. Very good. Thank you. And, we also have Carol Fawcett, who’s the CIO with Golden State Foods. Hey, Carol. How’s life?

Carol Fawcett [00:01:38]:

Fantastic. And happy holidays to all those who are listening.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:42]:

Beautiful. Thanks so much. And happy holidays to you as well on behalf of our listeners and myself. Now that said, so let’s start this conversation. And the first question, I’ll start with you, Carol. When we are looking at so much going on, and I remember doing this agenda topic when we were ending 2018, and AI was all the rage. And we were talking about AI and machine learning, etcetera. And digital transformation also people had started executing. Come this year, frankly, we are already seeing AI and machine learning going mainstream. And if someone says digital transformation, in fact, we cringe because we hear it literally in every walk of life. What is the different approach or different things you are thinking of doing and planning so that this disruption that is going to happen and of course leveraging digital in 2020, what is it that you’re going to be rethinking, reimagining and resetting?

Carol Fawcett [00:02:55]:

Well, broad question. So I think when we talk about how AI and machine learning have gone mainstream. I think companies are still on that journey. I’m not sure they have gone mainstream quite yet. I think what we learned in the last year was all the technologies that surround these efforts and how they really need to come into play in order to support those initiatives. But I think the one thing that if I had to sum it up is that what we’ve really learned is that in the last year we have seen that it’s not technology for the sake of technology. There need to be business cases around everything we do in order for us to meet the expectations of our end users both internal and external. So I think when I think about it, I think more about how do we partner with the business, and co create that value, with both our internal and our external stakeholders, before we charge down any path. Of course, you know, change management is key. That always comes to mind, right? But it really is, making sure that you understand what you’re shooting for even in the smallest of pilots so that you recognize whether the path you’ve taken is a good one for your business or perhaps needs to be adjusted.

Sanjog Aul [00:04:32]:

Now, Nafees, when you are looking at this whole 2019 and of course India being a different country, but at the same time we are all almost global citizens now And it is by no means India by no means is far behind or or in the, you know, nascent stages of evolution. It is really going gangbusters. In fact, I was there physically traveling for a couple of weeks. I was amazed at the the newness and the novelty and everything that’s going on there. So that said, is 2020 going to really bring any more disruptions than we are already handling for you?

Nafees Ahmed [00:05:11]:

So I think I would continue what Carol was saying. You know that all these new technologies like AI, ML or even, I would say, like blockchain, So these are the technologies with which people are experimenting for the last couple of years. They are trying to understand the impact of these technologies. People have run pilot projects. They have used these technologies. But I think now is the time that when these technologies are getting matured, people understand them and they can now trying to understand the use cases in your business, how effectively you can use these technologies in your business or how they can impact your business. So I think this is the time when next year people would be more it will go mainstream now. That’s what I’m thinking. I mean, that’s the way it’s going to happen. For example, these chatbots, I keep on talking to my peers in the industry. So they have created these small, small applications where they are saying they have implemented AI and all those things. But we have more and more discussions around these implementations. Then you understand that, okay, it’s the initial stage. Now the system will start learning about it. Once they get learned, then they will start delivering. So I would say these are the pilot projects. People are experimenting with these technologies, and now they understand these technologies as a real implementation will start now, I think, going forward next year.

Sanjog Aul [00:06:45]:

So Carol, you were

Nafees Ahmed [00:06:46]:

That will allow for reversing them, yes.

Carol Fawcett [00:06:50]:

Yes. I mean, I completely agree. I think that, what we learned is machines don’t learn on their own. It takes data in order to feed those algorithms to make predictive suggestions to our different business units. So I think we learned obviously that, you know, data warehouses are key, moving forward. When you talked a little bit about blockchain and maybe we’ll get into more of this later, It really is understanding the use cases around blockchain. It’s obviously gone well beyond crypto, especially in Golden State Foods business, where we manufacture product and provide that product all the way through to the storefronts. And there’s so many things that we see now, that had additional use cases that we never could have dreamed would have come out of these pilots. And I think that’s why now these pilots really will become more productive.

Sanjog Aul [00:07:50]:

So both of you, the way you responded, so Carol, it seems like that that whole pilot phase was the phase which we saw in 2019. And are you saying that 2020 is going to be not same old, same old, but whatever you learned from that experimentation, you’re going to try to apply on the businesses. That’s how you’re going to spend majority of 2020?

Carol Fawcett [00:08:17]:

Yes. In fact, our pilot, included our business, which I think is key for any pilot, right? It has to have the business right there with it, in order to make sure that we understand what we’re shooting for. In our blockchain pilot, our business was right there with us on the protein side. And, you know, we started off with just basics, which was how do you track, trace and monitor product through the supply chain. And then we really saw the side benefits that came along with it as we moved along. So I think in 2020 what you’re going to see is us obviously expanding those pilots, turning them more into production, but better understanding how a blockchain for example really involves from beginning to end and the external suppliers and the external participation that is required in order to make a blockchain successful.

Sanjog Aul [00:09:20]:

So, Nafees, in your world, as you mentioned that you were talking to your peers and you yourself are also experimentation. You were doing the experimentation. So would you say 2020 will continue that experimentation? Do you think you are in an initial stage of experimentation itself or you feel you’ve learned what you had to learn, now is the time to make something happen for the business?

Nafees Ahmed [00:09:44]:

No. I think we have learned what we need to learn. So for the last couple of years, we are doing these experimentation. Now we, I would say that we understand the power of these technologies. Now what we are trying to do is we are trying to find the real use cases, which where these technologies can be used in my business as well as for my internal employees also. We have around 20,000, 25,000 employees. So it’s a big number. So even for them, we are getting into that area now. They’re trying to find out the use cases where these technologies can be implemented. Similarly, in case of Blockchain, we are talking about. Blockchain is something I mean, people again, they have done some experiments. They have done some small implementation. But if you see, the real power of Blockchain is that when it works on an ecosystem, right? So it’s not about one industry or two industry or two players, it’s an ecosystem. So once you are able to establish that ecosystem and you become part of that ecosystem, then it makes sense and it becomes very, very powerful for the organization. Similarly, the another technology we are working on, I mean, is RPA. So when we talk about the scale when you are in the digital world, for example, in our consumer finance business, today, we are able to do around 25,000 loan disbursements in a day, which means 250,000 applications we are processing every day. So it’s impossible to do this activity in a physical world. You need thousands and thousands of people to do the underwriting and process these applications. So then technologies like RPA becomes very, very important. So here we have done some experiments. Now we understand where are the use cases in our operations teams where we can implement RPA and we can get the benefit of out of it.

Sanjog Aul [00:11:52]:

So Carol, given whatever you’re trying and what you’ve been trying over the years, say in 2020, do you want to do these things, not just to keep the lights on anyways, you want to grow. But is the intent to get a quantum leap or just build a better mouse trap? What do you think is the possibility after you’ve done all the experimentation that, woah, we are gonna wow our customers or it’s gonna be, you know what, one more thing that we’re gonna add to the type of things we were offering you already. What’s the mindset here?

Carol Fawcett [00:12:24]:

You know, I think that, it’s more the wow factor. When you think of the over 100 we want to make sure that we have like what we like to coin trust in every bite, that the food that we are delivering can be tracked and traced and monitored throughout that supply chain journey. So for us, it is a wow factor. I think our consumers, for all of us at the quick service restaurants, which is many of us including myself, we want to know that the product that’s being delivered has been kept at the correct temperature throughout its life from the beginning of its journey as a raw material all the way through the delivery and inside the stores itself, the storefronts. So for us, I think it is a wow factor. I think the consumers are getting smarter. They want more information. It can’t be assumed anymore that product has been kept safe and when there is a recall we want to make sure that we know exactly where that product originated from, to help reduce waste, if not eliminated altogether and provide safer food consumption for all.

Sanjog Aul [00:13:49]:

So Nafees, the same question when it comes to you given that yours is not as B2C oriented while people are still taking loans, But do you think your business wants to wow their people or just make it so easy for them that more business flows as a result and you take a leap ahead of your competitors? What what is driving all this? What what do you want to get out of all this? Not just stay busy or just do some cool things.

Nafees Ahmed [00:14:16]:

So in India was actually, I am I am working as a group CIO for an IndiaBulls Group. So there are different entities. For example, I am taking care of my housing finance business also. If you understand the housing loan, it’s a very, very complicated product, right? Here, we don’t have the scale or we don’t have the volumes. But in this case, you need to create a wow factor for my customers. So in a traditional way, if you are trying to get a housing loan, it used to take around a month or so. Now after doing this digitalization and providing these mobile applications to my customer, to my field staff, where they can do the transaction as and when required. So we have reduced that time. There, it was around 30 days. Now we can disperse a housing loan in a 3 days’ time. So this is one case where the volumes are not there, but we need to create a wow factor for my customers. Now there is another business. It’s a consumer finance business, where we are giving a small ticket loans, personal loans to my consumers. So in that case, for example, in the last couple of years, I have already disbursed more than 3,000,000 loans. And the idea is in the next 1 year, we want to reach a level of 10,000,000 customers. And the aspiration is that like the 5 or 6 years, something like that, we should have around 100,000,000 customers. So in this case, where the personal loan business or the consumer finance business is, I have to concentrate or I have to focus on the performance as well as the scale of this application. So there are two parts. Once I am creating the wow factor for my customer, but in another case, I need high performance architecture. And the personal housing finance business, where there is there are seasonal peaks to achieve that type of transactional volume. You can’t have on prem IT infrastructure. So now the clarity for me becomes that I have to create those hybrid solutions where I can take out my seasonal peaks on the cloud and then come back on my normal days or something like that. So these are the different type of customers I am handling, and we have to, you know, look for the different solutions for these people.

Sanjog Aul [00:16:46]:

So your response tells Nafees that it is, of course, very, ambitious yet at the same time achievable the way you’re going with the the whole plan. Now if you scale something, that is a wow factor for you and maybe the stock market. But as an individual consumer, that person is getting their loan sooner. Would you call that convenience as a wow factor or there is some other qualitative improvement that you’re bringing which will make them stick with you? Just the fact that you can do something faster, does it mean better?

Nafees Ahmed [00:17:21]:

No. It’s it’s a market disruption. I would give you an example. In my consumer finance business or my personal loan business, Can you believe it? You know that you are applying for a personal loan on your mobile app. And once you complete your journey of application on your mobile and within 3 minutes, you complete this journey. And at the end of the journey, you get the money in your bank account in real time basis. So that’s the disruption. That’s the power of digitalization.

Sanjog Aul [00:17:51]:

So now that’s something yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. And now now you answered my question is that this is like out of the world experience.

Nafees Ahmed [00:17:59]:

Yeah. So I mean, earlier it used to take 3 or 4 days time. Now each business used to, you know, in a traditional way, it was a 5 days a week business. I have made it a 24/7 business. I have seen people there taking loans in midnight or early morning time or they are when they are on the holidays, people are taking loans. So that’s the disruption of that’s the difference we have created in the market.

Sanjog Aul [00:18:28]:

Very nice. So Carol, now let’s see what are you doing to I mean, this is amazing what Nafees’s team has done, and he himself has led that effort along with his business leaders. What do you think on the ground you are doing to take it to that much of a quantum leap?

Carol Fawcett [00:18:48]:

Yeah. You know, for a distribution business who is, again putting out 17,000 deliveries a week. For us, it’s all about having accuracy and having the delivery time, being exactly as the end users are expecting. The food delivery business, is very unique in that no one wants to pull up to a quick service restaurant and order something that’s not available. But take it one level above that, think about when, you know, Mother Nature strikes and you have hurricanes that are hitting the, Southeast borders and people are relying on these different restaurants in order to get food during these hard times. That’s really when understanding where your end product is, where at what stage it’s in, how much you have of it, where it can be delivered and even helping out, in essence our competitors, if they are down in order to deliver food when people need it the most. That to me is truly the wow factor. And us being able to quickly reroute, our deliveries to stores that need it, quickly reroute the different product lines in order to make sure people are being fed in those areas, and doing that all real time. That’s again where digital really comes into play.

Sanjog Aul [00:20:21]:

So Carol, this is good that you’ve done it and of course, I’ll come back to Nafees with similar question. But then all of this is not just by slapping some cool technology. There has to be some fundamental shifts you have to make in your organization. It could be the people, the policy, the processes, even politics or whatever else that is there for you to shed whatever inhibitions people had or limiting beliefs people had or inertia people had and rally the troops to move them forward. What did you do within your IT organization and what were you able to do working alongside your business counterparts to shift the mindset, the capabilities, and the incentives and the inertia for other people involved?

Carol Fawcett [00:21:10]:

You know, it’s it all goes back to the culture of a company. And our CEO believes that it’s the people that make Golden State Foods a success and our culture supports that. So for change management, for example, with people, you look at, and I’m sure we’re not alone as we turn over into new technologies, helping them understand the why of a new technology, where the benefits will actually come into play as they start using that new technology. Helping them adapt through training, through different programs that help them see the technology benefits. Those are the kinds of policies. When you mentioned policies, I had to almost giggle because all those things you mentioned get wrapped together in change management, policy changes, process changes, procedural changes. And all those things together are what really make the culture of a company the positive, it provides the positive delivery that you need for your end users and for your customers.

Sanjog Aul [00:22:22]:

No. I a 100% agree with you that change management is the umbrella where all of this would fall. But you and I both know that change change management is the hardest function for any leader.

Carol Fawcett [00:22:35]:

Get it?

Sanjog Aul [00:22:35]:

So if you were to think about the journey that you’ve had, and you know our listeners would love the love to learn the lessons learned by you and your fellow leaders as you went about that journey because you’re already making a difference in the life of the customers, I’m sure. But this had to come not always at a sacrifice or a cost, but some shifts. So how did you go about it and what were the lessons learned as a result? Because other people are struggling and or striving to do something like this.

Carol Fawcett [00:23:08]:

Yeah. The the biggest shift is in the amount of communication that the IT and business partners need to do in order to step up the adaption and adoption of new technologies. IT in the past, we lived in a world where we could just simply provide new technologies and think they would be, automatically adopted. That is not the way it works. You really need to step up your communication. You also need to start small and that’s another big lesson learned process. The whole for us, for example, on our manufacturing side, as we move into a new ERP system, it isn’t about doing all 3 plants at the same time. Instead, it’s about doing 1 plant at a time, documenting your lessons learned and then applying those lessons learned as a KPI, a key performance indicator, with your next rollout So that you have focus on the things that you struggled with in your smaller pilot as you move into a larger. So communication, lessons learned and then training. I don’t believe you can ever train enough and it can’t be training in a classroom. That’s only the start. It needs to be training out in the facility, out where they live on a day to day basis so that they can see how those technologies are going to impact them on a day to day, hour by hour basis, as they move through these new technologies. So I think it’s all about the people aspect of it and stepping up the marketing programs that you need to put in place with these new technologies to really bolster them up and have people see the positiveness of those. And it must be consistent and constant throughout the process from beginning to end. For our new ERP system, for example, we had our end users right there with IT looking at new ERP systems to make that decision together. So that we could hear what was important to them. And we could see then partnering that with what was important from a technology aspect, be it security, be it ease of use, be it ease of upgrades, maintenance, so on and so forth. So it starts at the beginning with communication right from the thought process when an idea is actually like a candle lit for its first time and then moves all the way through to the end, post your go live moment, where you continuously go back to those end users and see how they are adopting to their new technologies, making those changes and those tweaks as the days progress.

Sanjog Aul [00:26:00]:

Let’s take a quick break listeners, we’ll be right back. And Nafees, I’d love to have you share your journey because what you’ve shared as a result that you’re delivering already, that is phenomenal, very impressive. But I’m sure it came with some development, some ugliness, some great moments as you went about helping transform the company beyond the technology. But before you let let’s let’s hold your thought. We’ll come back from the break and, we’ll talk more. So please stay tuned listeners. We’ll be right back.

Speaker 0 [00:26:38]:

Today, enterprise technology is both strategic and the business to innovate and help IT become more competitive, better care for customers, and improve the corporate bottom line. If you want to keep up with IT thought leadership, listen to CTN, CIO Talk Network, with Sanjog Aul at ciotalknetwork.com. You are listening to CTN CIO Talk Network with Sanjog Aul. To learn more about our program, please visit ciotalknetwork.com. Now back to the show.

Sanjog Aul [00:27:34]:

Welcome back listeners. So, Nafees, as, Carol shared her journey and some of the trials and tribulations and the learning, you have amazing results that you deliver to the business, and you have a very ambitious plan of taking it to a million, loans processed and other things that you mentioned in your previous response. What was your learning in doing what you already accomplished and how do you think you’re going to take those learnings to rethink and reimagine what you will do in the next year?

Nafees Ahmed [00:28:12]:

You know, when we started this digital transformation project in our organization in February back, So the biggest challenge I faced was from my employees. So they were scared. These guys were scared that with all this digital transformation, a lot of automation comes into the future. So they were scared about their roles, they were scared about their jobs, what is going to happen with their jobs. So it was very, very difficult for us to convince these guys that this new technology, these new platforms, these new applications are going to help you in your day to day business. You will get more quality time and you will be able to get good work instead of doing your routine jobs. So that was one of the biggest challenge I have seen in this digital transformation journey. So what the other part is training these people because these people are working on their applications, on their system for long, long time and making a new change, a completely new applications if you give it to them. So there is a natural resistance which comes from them. So what we have done in the last couple of years or so is that so we have to create a very, very strong training systems around these applications. When you do this digital transformation in a digital world, earlier, people used to work on systems like ERP where changes were minimal or once in a while you get a new process or something like that. But in a digital platform, when every day, you have you are changing the processes. So it becomes very, very difficult for you communicate these changes to the ground level. So in that case, you need to have a very, very strong training systems in place. So we have a very mature training systems for we have thousands and thousands of people. So to obtain these guys on the process changes, which are now becomes more and more frequent as compared to the past. So that is one thing where we have learned a lot that how to communicate these changes, these how to make these people adopt the agility of the system. So that is one thing what we have done. You know when you were asking about this cultural change. So with this digital implementation, you need to change that culture in your organizations. Then earlier, IT was a it used to work as a support system. You get some requirements from somebody in the business. You implement them and deliver them and people some people are using it. But because you need to understand their system, you will need to change their processes very frequently. Now there is a more and more, I would say, communication or discussion or interaction with the business people. So I my people, most of the time, they are sitting with people like operations people, finance people, sales people or my underwriters to understand their problems and getting the solutions for them. So the changing when you are saying that changing the culture, culture means now you need to involve these people in the solutions. Earlier, it was like an ERP, you create a solution, really easy, train the people and it goes like that. But today, you need the involvement of these people. So I have a very, very small innovation team in our organization. So it’s not only an IT people. In this team, we have people from operations, we have people from finance, we have people from HR. So it’s a core team of 8 or 10 people who keep on discussing about how they can improve the process, how they can improve the customer experience, how they can implement new technologies because these people have come from different backgrounds. They have some use cases in their mind that, okay, in this case, we can use this technology to improve the productivity or improve the customer experience. So by engaging with my most of the departments, so we have we are able to change that culture. Now there is no threat to their jobs, are not scared, not participate in the innovation journey. So that’s a process we have made, and I think now people are adopting to new technologies. They show interest. And even I get suggestions from my for example, from my operations team that somebody in the market is doing something like this. Why can’t we do it? It will solve our best problem in our for these people or something like that. So I mean, it took time. It was not an easy journey. It was other than the technology, this was the biggest challenge I have faced. But everybody is on the same platform, everybody has the same thought process. And I can see that cultural difference now what we used to be there before starting this digital transformation and now how the people are working in the organization.

Sanjog Aul [00:33:36]:

So based on what you did so far, Nafees, and and there are quite a few things that you did and and the fact that you were able to deliver something that substantial already tells that most of your strategies worked. Are there any specific learnings besides the basic inertia, which is a knee jerk reaction for most employees when you introduce something new? Any other learning? And the second part of the question is the ambitious plan that you have for 2020 and beyond, what what more changes do you still need to do? So what are you what are you going to do in 2020 more in terms of building this foundation or improving this foundation so you can achieve your ’21 and ’22 goals? What’s your plan? What are you going to be busy working on in 2020?

Nafees Ahmed [00:34:20]:

Okay. So, no, I will just give you an example because, as I told you, you know that I’m working for the group. So we are getting into insurance business, life insurance as well as general insurance. So we are coming with this insurance next year. We have already started working on the processes and the solution is the technologies we have to use. So we have now one team. So there are business people. We have hired people from outside. But again, it’s the same thing that getting an insurance business, which is already a very, very crowded market in India. So you again, what my before I want to make this business successful, I have to be innovative. I need to disrupt the market. That’s the only way I can make something out of it for this new business. So what we are doing is, as an IT, and using our learnings what we have done in the last couple of years that we are sitting with these business people when we are defining these processes. So I’m not taking it on the face value. So whatever these people are telling me that this process has to run this way, so my team and I’m questioning these people. I’m questioning the business. Why do you want it this way? Why can’t it happen in that manner? It will solve your more problem and it will be more you will get more good customer experience or something like this. So we are questioning those processes. That’s because we are able to learn those things from our experience in the last couple of years. So that’s the way we are taking those whatever we could learn from our earlier work, we are trying to implement it in new projects now.

Sanjog Aul [00:36:06]:

So, Carol, based on how Nafees went about doing what he did, did you have to fundamentally rethink your talent pool for what’s gonna come ahead? Because not everyone can be trained to something fundamentally different. The kind of things we are toying with, which means, you need to get some new talent. Maybe you get some consulting help. But not everyone who is in your current talent pool will be relevant if they choose not to step up. What’s your plan for 2020 on that front?

Carol Fawcett [00:36:39]:

So it is all about training and it is all about the things that Nafees was just talking about where you do bring in, the vendors to help bring people up to speed. At the end of the day though, it really is up to the people whether they choose to adopt and to learn that new technology or whether they feel they need to move on and go someplace else that is supporting the technology that they’re used to supporting today. But we give everyone the opportunity to learn the new technologies and be part of a wave, that is occurring in our industry right now, that, you know, introduces new technologies and the use of those new technologies. So again, you know, we’re looking at small pilots that gives everyone a chance to get their arms around it, working with the vendors, that helps them see how the vendors actually work with the product and then formal training to get them trained up so that they can support it going forward.

Sanjog Aul [00:37:41]:

So if you are to think about the mindset, you think the old and the new guard or the old and the new talent. Should they wear a new mindset so that they can support you where you’re leading the pack and help achieve the business achieve what it wants to achieve? Or is it gonna be the same old, same old, the same fundamentals? It’s just more of the same in 2020. That’s the difference what I’m trying to uncover is that if a CIO is to look in 2020, what they ought to be looking at?

Carol Fawcett [00:38:16]:

So we’ve been on that journey, for a while now. So that our journey actually started after the end of 2018 of adopting new technologies and taking it forward. So for us 2020, will obviously add newer technologies, but we’re in the process of following our 3 year strategic plan of rolling out the new world, to our end users and for our external customers as well.

Sanjog Aul [00:38:47]:

Alright. So that said, so now let’s let’s go back to the the the next question. Think security because we we are all Nafees, you as well as Carol, you are moving at 100 miles an hour. But that doesn’t take away the risk which comes inherent with the digitalization or any form of digital transformation. It’s like drilling windows in a secured fort with a very big thick door and that too voluntarily. And then CISO or anyone who you make in charge of security is still a human when we last checked, and they are already struggling to keep up. How you think we will be able to move past that security risk so that we are not left holding the bag, even though you do a lot of innovation, you get a lot more customers, you get some fanfare, but then you have a breach and you got a lot more issues on your, on, on your hand. Carol?

Carol Fawcett [00:39:52]:

Oh, sorry. I thought that was to diffuse. I think that security is a never ending ongoing process. It is something our focus, it can never you can never sit back and believe that you are 100% secured. You must always be thinking of, almost thinking like someone who is attempting to come into your environment and take what they want. So I think it’s always something that is on the focus of all of IT as well as of the business, right. So they’re right there with us, and we have to educate them as well, not only for their business use but also for their home use as well. You know, we’re constantly reminding them, you know, think before you click and, you know, put two factor authentication on your different systems that you’re using. So we’re constantly thinking forward on where the security issues are going to begin to rise up again, and it’s something that I don’t think you can ever take your eye off of. So I don’t think it’s anything new. I think it’s always been there. It’s just the hackers of the world have gotten much more creative, and have come up with different ways of infiltrating your environment, resting while they collect data and then coming back later to actually wreak havoc inside your environment. That impacts not only the business but everyone, including the external customers that are involved with that business.

Sanjog Aul [00:41:29]:

So, Nafees, you are all about loans and money shift changing hands, not a trivial business. It’s just it’s a financial services for all all for the way we would define it. And security risk is not something you mess around with either. What have you done when you’re going with such ambitious plans to make sure that nothing stops you?

Nafees Ahmed [00:41:51]:

So there are two aspect of information security. One is the people and second is your IT systems. So from the people front, I mean, they used to work in a closed environment earlier, but now the systems are open to the world. There are hundreds of applications which are information security quizzes, we have those even information security quizzes. We have during the induction also whenever a new employee is joining, there is a chapter on information security. So you keep on doing these awareness programs with your employees to make sure that they understand the meaning of security and what security means to the user level, my the end user level, my employees. For example, we have implemented something like VDI. We have implemented something like mobile IRN on the employee devices who are using some applications or emails on their mobile applications. We have implemented something like DLP. So with this security, a lot of restrictions comes into place. So you people also get frustrated. Earlier, they used to do everything. Everything was available. Now they have to take some permissions or it’s open to them for some allow or some time only. So the frustration comes into the picture. So you have to keep on telling or run those awareness programs to make sure that the people understand what security means and how important it is for the organization. Secondly, what Carol said rightly, the incident will happen, the breach will happen. It’s a never ending game. It’s a continuous process. I have implemented 100s of security solutions. So there is from the system point of view, you need to keep a balance between how many applications or how many security tools you are implementing, so which is creating the latency or impacting the performance of your high transactions applications. That is one part. And secondly, you have to make sure that your IT systems are resilient enough that if breach happens, you are able to recover and you are able to recover fast. So I think these are the two aspects, which we always keep in mind and keep on working on them all the time. It’s a continuous process.

Carol Fawcett [00:44:32]:

Yes, I would completely agree with all those things that Nafees has called out. Those awareness programs cannot be overlooked. I mean, that really is where you help train those end users to better understand, how people are attempting to infiltrate your environment. I know that, Nafees, you probably do the same thing where you send out, in essence fake phishing exercises to see who will click on them. Once they click on them, then they have to go to training. You know, we send out an email that says, We see you clicked on this by mistake. Now you need to take this end user training. And it’s a constant reminder to them to be aware. I always love when those go out because everyone sends it back to me and says, is this real? So I think it’s a fun exercise to do with you. And if you keep it fun, people will continue to participate and that awareness will be there. Very similar, it’s all about recovery time. Nafees couldn’t agree with you more. It is all about, when it happens, how do you recovery? What do those backups look like? Where’s that air gap? How far back can you go? Or how what’s that distance between recovery time? So it’s all those things that wrap together around security. And as we always say, and Nafees, I’m sure you say the same thing. It’s not a matter of if, it’s just a matter of when and we all focus on how do you recover quickly to get your business back on track.

Sanjog Aul [00:46:01]:

Now Carol’s, piggybacking on the security part. In fact, not piggybacking, the very next logical question is while you handle security, but you also need to make sure that not just your internal systems and processes are overhauled and ready to pave the foundation of what you’re gonna do in 2020 and beyond, but also your partners who are supposed to work with you together to make an experience happen, to get the growth happen. And not just for you, but for them as well. So it’s a win win. Anything that you’re doing new more or different so that your partner step up and say, you know what? Let’s sync Ubaya and also let’s grow together?

Carol Fawcett [00:46:46]:

Absolutely. In fact, we, in IT, we actually reach out to our customers’ IT organizations. We have CIO to CIO conversations. We have quarterly strategic meetings with them to see the kind of activities that they’re doing and what does their technology and business roadmap look like. So together, we can come up with winning solutions for both of us on how to make it easier for our joint external customers, the end users that visit those stores, storefronts, we make it easier for them. So there’s lots of different initiatives we’re trying with the different, quick service restaurants that are out there that we provide product to. We also have innovation centers in each one of our manufacturing plants, that are trying out new recipes, new things to attract our external customers to come into those storefronts and order more. We’re also trying out different means of distribution and how those different storefronts actually receive their food. We know that the industry is changing. There’s much more takeout than there’s ever been. So we’re right there with our customers helping to come up with solutions that will make their storefronts more productive without having to expand their storefronts. So maybe it’s the change in the way they’re doing business, maybe they’re shrinking the, table number of tables, the number of people they can support in, recognize that there’s more people going through the drive thru than ever before. So very exciting times for the food business going forward, not only from a delicious taste perspective, but also in the way that it’s just served up.

Sanjog Aul [00:48:37]:

Now, Nafees, when you look in your world, do you think you have such an advanced ecosystem of partners that you need to use to deliver? And if yes, are there any unique things that you’re doing to keep them motivated and charged up so that you all grow together and the customer benefits as a result?

Nafees Ahmed [00:48:58]:

So earlier, you know, the way it used to happen is that you have some limited couple of partners who used to run everything for you, who used to do all the things for you. But now the things are changing. What we have done is our partner base is increasing day by day. And earlier, it’s not about the big companies when we talk about the innovation. So I feel I mean, these startups are doing wonderful jobs, right? It’s not about innovation. You can’t think of that innovation is going to come from Microsoft or IBM or Oracle or something very small companies, these new startups. The first chatbot we implemented in IndiaBulls Group, it was a company of 5 people who worked with us. So these people, they are very excited. It’s a young talent and they want to prove themselves. So I am okay with this. We run these innovation programs, even the students can participate to show our products or show us their products and what they are thinking about it, about the new technologies and how they can be implemented. So it’s more and more engagement with the partner. It’s not like I’m looking for some solution or some big ERP solution, and they are implementing it for us. So it’s day to day work. And these are the small start up companies. They are working very well, and they are very efficient. They are very agile. It’s my experience. If you go with a big company and you want something done or you want to do some experiment or you want to do some POC, it might take months with these people. But if it’s a start up, it’s a small company, it’s a new company, young people, you can do it in couple of weeks. So it’s and in this digital world, you keep on doing those experiments. You do 10 experiments, 8 will fail, 9 will fail, 1 will succeed. So for that type of ecosystem or for that type of relationship, you can’t have just a transactional relationship with these partners. It’s a relationship which grows on trust and where both of them have to put their skin in the game, you know? At some point of time, I tell them that, okay, you do it. You are the first month. You are the first time doing this type of work. I am okay to take that hit. I will implement it. Let’s see how it goes. If it is successful, then partner is very happy because he can take that solution. He got the brand name, IndiaBulls, that he has implemented this particular solution in IndiaBulls, and he can market it in the market go to the market with that solution. So it’s a win win situation for everybody. So that’s the cultural change I think we have taken instead of relying on couple of partners. Now we are keep on looking for young talent or young organizations to be the partner with us.

Sanjog Aul [00:51:57]:

Okay. Thirty seconds for each of you. That’s the most we have because we have to close the show. Carol, one thing you will fix or shift in your leadership style to be better set up for 2020, to be able to do your job the best you can in 2020?

Carol Fawcett [00:52:17]:

I think for me, it’s staying engaged with the business and bringing that engagement back to the IT organization to help them see where we help the business be a success.

Sanjog Aul [00:52:30]:

Nafees?

Nafees Ahmed [00:52:33]:

I think instead of being a leader I have to be a coach for my team. I have to give them the freedom to experiment and keep them motivating and, you know, push them for the innovations, think about the new things. And, that’s the way I think we can move forward in this world.

Sanjog Aul [00:52:51]:

On behalf of the show and our listeners, thanks so much, Carol and Nafees, for sharing your insights and thoughts about how CIOs can plan their way into getting the most out of 2020, keep their employees motivated, and get the most value for their business. So thanks so much again.

Carol Fawcett [00:53:08]:

Thank you, and happy holidays to all.

Sanjog Aul [00:53:11]:

Thank you again, and thanks to both of you, and hope listeners you enjoyed. I got some nuggets out of this. Please like us on Facebook. Search for CTN, CIO Talk Network, and be sure to follow us on Twitter and join our LinkedIn group. Thank you again for listening to this segment on CTN. This is Sanjog Aul, your talk show host. Till next week. Take care and God bless.