Dr. Kevin Kramer
Dr. Kathe Fox
Metric identification, data collection, comparing and contrasting, focused action and sustained improvement… these are the elements needed for the sales function to be more effective and help individuals and organizations to make their sales numbers! Obviously, Sales can no longer depend solely on transactional data, since there is more to understanding how, why, and when people buy. Could Big Data help in this endeavor?
Contributors
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- Dr. Kevin Kramer, Head of Sales Analytics and Optimization, Aetna
- Dr. Kathe Fox, Head of Informatics, Aetna Financial
Transcript (Can Big Data help sales make its numbers?)
Speaker A [00:00:00]:
CIO Talk Radio is brought to you by LexisNexis Litigation Solutions. Welcome to CIO Talk Radio with your host, Sanjog Aul. All comments, views and opinions expressed on this show are strictly those of the host, guests and callers. Now here’s Sanjog Aul.
Sanjog Aul [00:00:26]:
Good morning and welcome to CIO Talk Radio. To learn more about the show, please visit www.ciotalkradio.com and now, the moment you’ve all been waiting for. Here are the winners of our new year new book contest. A big thanks to all who entered. We saw some really great topic suggestions. Congratulations to Stephen Evans, winner of the CIO playbook for his topic on Building Business Relationships, Michael Ambrosino, winner of the Blue Ocean Strategy book for his topic on Business Intelligence Models within higher education
Sanjog Aul [00:01:01]:
and lastly, Wilbert Williams, winner of the Social Organization for his topic on Gamification’s Impact On Modern Salesforce. Thanks again for all the entrants. Connect with CIO Talk Radio on our social networks, Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter for future special promotions and as always, join our conversation on Twitter #CTRLive #BigData. Today’s topic is Can Big Data Help Sales Make Its Numbers? And I have with me Dr. Kathy Fox who is the head of informatics, Aetna Financial. Good morning, Cathy, how are you?
Dr Kathe Fox [00:01:36]:
Good morning. I’m fine, thank you.
Sanjog Aul [00:01:39]:
So things are going well with you? How’s business?
Dr Kathe Fox [00:01:42]:
Business is always good and especially with the changes that we’re seeing in the healthcare landscape coming up with new healthcare legislation, business is even better than ever.
Sanjog Aul [00:01:54]:
Great. And also we have Kevin Kramer, who is the head of sales analytics and optimization at Aetna. Good morning, Kevin. How are you doing?
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:02:02]:
I’m great, thank you. Good morning.
Sanjog Aul [00:02:05]:
So the life is the same for you as Kathy. Both of you work closely together.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:02:10]:
We do and it’s an exciting time to be in the healthcare industry.
Sanjog Aul [00:02:14]:
Yeah, could not agree more. So now the topic that we have picked up today about Big Data and sales, while they might look the two different polls which may otherwise never connect, would like to explore how the connection can be made and how folks can make their numbers. Now coming to the first question, I’ll start with you, Kathy. With the competition getting fiercer every day, how do you think the sales function is actually adapting to maintain and grow their numbers? Are they doing anything new and or different or they are removing anything old that they have been doing in form of a creative destruction, if you will.
Dr Kathe Fox [00:02:55]:
So maybe it will help our listeners if I just take a moment and talk a little bit about how health insurance is sold because that has an enormous impact on the sales function that you’re describing today. So when you look at an organization like Aetna, we have about 18 million members, the large majority, however, those members come to us, as it were, through what we call plan sponsors and so that tends to be large employers. And so many of the decisions that are being made about the purchasing of healthcare is really being done not by an individual member, but by someone who is representing that organization, whether it’s the director of benefits or it’s the Chief Financial Officer or someone like that and for smaller organizations, you know, companies of 15, 20, 50 employees, a lot of that work is actually being done through the use of what we call brokers. So people that help that those companies think about the purchase of health insurance. One of the major things that’s happening with the change in legislation is obviously the expansion of healthcare coverage to individuals who previously had trouble purchasing insurance. So what we would talk about is the growth of individual coverage
Dr Kathe Fox [00:04:16]:
and that obviously is changing tremendously how we thinking about things from a sales perspective and Kevin’s been very intimately involved in some of the thinking around that and so I’m going to turn it over to him now. Let him say a little something about that.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:04:32]:
Thanks, Kathe. Let me just complement what she’s saying by coming back to the core topic of this hour and that is the fact that sales activity, whether that’s direct to the consumer or as Kathy pointed out in our case mostly intermediated through brokers, is becoming more analytic and quantitative than ever before. We work very extensively with acquisition or prospect data. We work very extensively with our own member and group data to help identify opportunities in the marketplace, not only to acquire new businesses, but to do the things we need to do to retain the groups that we have.
Sanjog Aul [00:05:18]:
Now Kevin, you mentioned that we want to heavily utilize data, slice and dice it. Now, we know traditionally people always buy from people and they do it because they like them, know them and trust them. Where does this analytics coming and actually adding value. Who would want to really feel warm and fuzzy if they thought that? You have literally gone through their whole personal and professional history to figure out how to best pitch to them and that’s how they’re getting sold, because nobody likes to be sold.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:05:50]:
Let me answer it a couple of ways. First of all, we work with our brokers to help them simply identify opportunities in marketplaces. We have discovered that brokers have a tendency to gravitate to a book of business that resonates with them. We have brokers that are really good in selling and if you can believe it, the car dealership and automotive space, small groups, we have others that specialize in restaurants, we have others that specialize in retail. So core support function we do is simply help provide them with leads within those areas. So it’s done at a very, you know, more of a high level than at the level you’re suggesting. So that’s one activity that goes on and the brokers really appreciate this and then secondly, you know, we also work with them.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:06:42]:
We build incentive programs around getting our brokers to drive more of a book of business to us and again, that involves not only selling our core products, which are medical, but also dental, disability and life as well. And we can tell from our data and the patterns in the data which brokers tend to have the ability and the skill to sell. What.
Sanjog Aul [00:07:05]:
And Kathe, coming back to you, do you think there is something still profiner or esoteric left in the way a broker would work and, or a medical organization or say for that matter a healthcare insurance organization like you have been doing business for you to really go back to the drawing board, try to find some new patterns which might be emerging. Is there really business changing besides of course, the different reforms that are coming about in healthcare?
Dr Kathe Fox [00:07:36]:
Oh, I definitely think that business is changing tremendously because you’re essentially taking a market health insurance that was very distant, as it were, from an individual. So their understanding about what’s being purchased on their behalf, etc, was really not within their control. And so they didn’t think a lot about it. And now you’re going to make it possible for them to actually have very unique decisions about what kind of coverage is best for me, what fits with my healthcare needs, what fits with my interests about access to care, what fits with how I want to distribute the spending for healthcare. A lot of things that essentially they were, I’ll say, shielded from in the past and all of us in the healthcare arena have become very, very interested in the use of really very unique individual level data and I think this is where Big data and the whole Big Data analytic movement is going to make us understand what motivates people in healthcare, not only from their purchasing, but for their use of healthcare services and also around the much larger issue of, keeping and maintaining their health and making sure that they are as healthy as possible, which is a very, critical piece of sort of the whole healthcare purchasing equation.
Sanjog Aul [00:09:05]:
Kevin, do you think the mindset of the very end consumer and or the insured individual or a family, has that mindset changed to a significant degree that you have to re-look at the assumptions that were made in the way they perceive healthcare, in the way perceive healthcare insurers, the way they shop and the way they look for options.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:09:30]:
I think it has. The ongoing national debate and evolution of healthcare reform has certainly made consumers much more aware of options and alternatives that exist in the marketplace and how they can best provide for themselves and their families in terms of coverage and as Kathe alluded to some of the preventative and healthy lifestyle activities they can undertake. So we see this reflected in the way in which groups and individuals gravitate to some plans and some benefit components of plans more than others so I do think there’s a very positive benefit of educating folks and it goes beyond just price, but also to the product and the services and benefits associated with those plans.
Sanjog Aul [00:10:19]:
So Kathe, if you were to look at Big Data, you did mention Big Data. Now that’s so geeky for a salesperson. Why should they even care?
Dr Kathe Fox [00:10:28]:
Well, I don’t know if it’s so geeky for a salesperson and they definitely should care because the more we understand about people, not only the characteristics of people who purchase products, but the more we understand about their use of the products, the better we are able to sell to them and sell them the right products and the things that they need. Health insurance is a very personal decision and we can be fairly confident that everyone who purchases it is at some point going to use it and they need to think about how they want to be using it and also both best fit for their personal needs, their financial needs, their family needs, etc and so the more that the salesperson understands that, the more likely they are to be able to align the correct products with the needs of the individuals. No one wants to over purchase a service too much, nor under purchase and I think unfortunately many people don’t understand well enough about their own unique healthcare needs, what their risks are, eta and it’s really, this is a place where the salesperson needs to be not only presenting the products, but really be an advisor to the individual about what they need to be well protected. So that’s where Big Data helps them out more than any because historically a lot of the information that we’ve used to understand what is the likely experience of somebody’s consumption of healthcare services has primarily been based on their age and their gender, etc, where they are in terms of their life, married, children, things like that.
Dr Kathe Fox [00:12:18]:
Whereas we actually know when we look at Big Data and organizations like Aetna and all Large insurers and small as well, look very, carefully and very extensively at all of the information that they have on their members to understand them and serve them better. That it’s that information that the salespeople need to use and need to understand and welcome to have in order to do the best job possible for our members.
Sanjog Aul [00:12:49]:
Now, Kevin, if you were to inventory, say top two or three things which are essentially gaps in the understanding that a salesperson has with respect to the mindset, the way a person thinks and because of which they say, now I need some help from advanced analytics or Big Data or anything, whatever you can do behind the scenes. But I need this information. What would those be?
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:13:17]:
Well, let me start by saying that our broker network in general, they’re very sophisticated. Obviously this is their bread and butter. This is how they earn their living and they’re very knowledgeable about the products and they tend to be pretty knowledgeable about the marketplace where we come in and assist them, I would say is in two categories again, helping them understand perhaps missed or unknown opportunities within their own regions within which they try to secure new opportunity and you know, new businesses are coming into existence all the time, particularly in the small group space existing businesses are shopping around for perhaps considering change from one carrier to another and the extent that we can use big data and analytics to help in effect target or rank order the best prospects for them, they find this immensely important. I’d say the second thing, and this will be a byproduct of the legislation and the reform, is that there’ll be more transparency than ever before on what brokers sell to whom, who their book of business is, what the price points are around those things that information will become publicly available to all carriers
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:14:33]:
and so that will get tapped into and both be a boon and an increased challenge in being able to for brokers to be successful.
Sanjog Aul [00:14:45]:
Now let’s take a quick break, listeners. When we come back, let’s look at the way big data has to be utilized. Can big data help in optimal resource deployment to ensure that there are enough timely and quality conversations happening to yield results? So is it something while it’s a means to an end so scan can suddenly this could turn things around and everything will be working in the best possible manner just because we introduced this advanced analytics using big data. Let’s explore this when we come back. Please stay tuned.
Speaker A [00:15:24]:
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Speaker A [00:16:38]:
Now back to the show. Here’s Sanjog Aul.
Sanjog Aul [00:16:42]:
Welcome back. So Cathy, question here is that the actual sales happens typically or the scenario is that the sales happens when we have conversations and that too happening at the right time and then to quality and which is educational and helps people. With that said, what do you think is helped? How does big data aid it? How does it help?
Dr Kathe Fox [00:17:04]:
Okay, well, maybe we should step back for one moment. Let’s talk about Big Data. I think, as always happens in these kinds of environments, a term sort of takes on a life of its own and often people don’t relate it as accurately as possible to the concept that it’s trying to encompass. So at least from our perspective, and Kevin and I both run large analytic teams at Aetna, what we really mean by big data is the ability to bring in large quantities of disparate information and to organize it in ways that make it possible for us to do analyses of key questions and to be able to look at those data that may appear highly disparate. But when we use the sophisticated analytic techniques associated with big data, we can see connections that normally we might not be able to understand without these kinds of techniques. So really, when we’re talking about big data, we’re really talking much more about, quote, big data analytics. And the exciting thing about healthcare, and at least for me, and I’ve been in the healthcare analytic world for my whole career, is the fact that it’s always been an area that has had an enormous amount of disparate data and it’s always taken complicated analytic techniques to understand it and to link together and draw conclusions from different pieces. One of the things that’s been added to sort of the traditional data sets, as it were, that we’ve looked at, which would have been things like claims and clinical information and maybe information from our care management programs, information from Providers, et cetera, is our ability to now add to that much more real time or near time data about how members behave so their interactions with things like our online tools or with our mobile apps, et cetera, and to feed that information into all of the other information that we’re already collecting to give us a much clearer understanding of the member.
Dr Kathe Fox [00:19:27]:
And in turn we can then use that to craft not only the offerings that we have for our members that we believe will meet their healthcare needs, help them use the most efficient, highest quality providers, but at the same time help us to then track how successful we are there. So that’s the context in which we think about big data.
Sanjog Aul [00:19:52]:
Now when you talk about like and this is a question for you Kevin, do you think down to the BRSS tacs, do you think sales can help or it can create better leads? If it were to leverage Big Data, do you think you can actually have a good system where any lead that comes in, you also have insights as to who’s the best salesperson to handle it based on their individual competencies as well as the type of lead it is, and then actually make the match so that you eventually get the best results for the organization.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:20:27]:
That’s the objective. And you know, we feel we’re making tangible progress in moving in that direction, which is the better, you know, enabling our brokers and our sales folks to be more successful selling more of the right product to the right group at the right time. And that’s what Big Data and analytics has helped bring to the table is a better understanding of the preferences that a prospect or a group might have and how to take an existing plan sponsor and transition them to appropriate plans in order to retain them or to identify the kind of plan that would resonate most with a prospect. And again, all of that can be driven off of data that we have. The kinds of data that Kathe alluded to can be massage manipulated in ways that show underlying patterns that might not have been self evident in a more traditional, just sales driven environment. So listen, it’s very well received on the broker side, right? They make their money by selling more. So if we can make them aware of the appropriate product that should be presented first to a particular group and that can resonate with that group, then they’re just so much further down the conversation toward a close than they otherwise might be.
Sanjog Aul [00:21:48]:
Now Kathe, you did mention about how we have to get a better handle on the very health insurance segment and then try to make the most of any technology that’s out there. Do you think the potential of Big Data to be able to create a natural market segmentation, which will allow you to have the sales leader work within their group to create a very fluid strategy and as the world changes around them, they kind of navigate through it and still come out as winners.
Dr Kathe Fox [00:22:23]:
Well, segmentation is an interesting issue, and we’ve always talked about segmentation in the healthcare market. I can tell you that historically, one of the ways that we’ve used market segmentation is less on the sales side and actually more on the delivery side. Meaning that, you know, our goal is to make our members as healthy as they possibly can be and we’ve used a lot of segmentation information to actually understand how to interact with our members in terms of care management programs and other kinds of offerings, I think and as we have more information, and this is a way that Big Data does help us, we can obviously make those segments narrower, more specific, more descriptive, stronger profiles. All of those kinds of things are clearly key elements of the Big Data movement. One of the things you have to be careful about with Big Data is that you don’t is that after you’re sort of done with the analytic piece of it, what things seem to be clustering together, etc, that in fact, those things still hang together from an operational perspective are they clinically accurate, are they demographically accurate, etc.
Dr Kathe Fox [00:23:42]:
Just because you tend to see clusters of something doesn’t mean that those things actually work together. So that there is, you know, if we think of the analytic side as the quantitative side, there’s still a highly qualitative side of the analysis of the information and that’s really where we, data analytics, piece into something that we can put to operation and that’s really how you work with the segments as well in terms of having those different pieces. I think the other thing that we want to be included in this discussion is that as the health insurance market is changing, also the health marketplace, in terms of the kinds of services that are available to members, is also changing, and that’s very important to us. Meaning that we’re seeing a growth of different kinds of services that are available out in the market, from things as simple as primary care, retail clinics within drugstores, to different ways of purchasing prescription drugs, to different kinds of interest in access and use of complementary medicine. All of those things are also changing in the healthcare marketplace and we as a health insurer have to reflect the interest in our members and consumers in having access and use of those kinds of healthcare services
Dr Kathe Fox [00:25:09]:
and that’s another place where Big Data is very, very helpful because we can look at that and we can understand how do changes in the marketplace change the use and access to services of our members.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:25:23]:
And let me add to that, Kathe alluded to the operational side and it’s not just in terms of delivery of medical care and healthy outcome types of services, but all the touch points we have today with our members. I mean, that truly is a Big Data challenge because between our call centers and our websites and mobile and we have a chat called ask and you know, what are called EOBs, explanation of benefits that get sent out, the statement you get whenever you visit a doctor and the disposition of the coverage and the payment around that that exceeds 800 million touches a year off of our member base and tremendous amount of data to analyze. But I think more important, all those touch points create opportunities to service and satisfy our members and getting alignment around those things so if somebody’s calling in who we know who has diabetes and we have a particular new diabetes program, we might want to educate them on that opportunity or direct them to URL a web link where there’s more information on that. So we’re all very excited about adopting some of the tools and techniques that are pretty commonplace in the multichannel marketing worlds of retail and financial services they’re also being fleshed out today in healthcare.
Sanjog Aul [00:26:45]:
So if you were to look at a quota, and I know we all want to make our numbers, do you think it’s a good idea to keep a sky high quota and never be able to make it or keep it too low so your forecasting suffers? How does a sales organization come to a point where it comes pretty close to what is actually achievable? We are almost trying to get a crystal ball, but is that realistic expectation to set in the first place? Kathe?
Dr Kathe Fox [00:27:15]:
Well, I think the first thing is that Aetna’s publicly traded organization, our sales forecasts are public information and it is, you know, it behooves us to set them realistically and then successfully meet them and so, and that’s what we try to do at every turn. The use of information and historic information, you know, Big Data is not only about projecting the future, it’s about understanding the past and therefore our ability to understand when we are successful, why we are successful, which kinds of sales situations make for the greater success is equally as important in terms of upsetting our forecast and then achieving them successfully.
Sanjog Aul [00:28:08]:
So Kevin, do you think there are specific areas where you sure can provide the data which has which you can, where you can say there will be a tangible impact and that’s measurable because what you can measure is what you can improve. I mean, is there a direct correlation that I provided this data and that’s where there was a corresponding increase? Or is it more like a soft dotted line connections we are making between an investment in a technology and or a process like Big Data and the increase in the sales numbers?
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:28:40]:
Well, you know the beautiful thing about Big Data and analytics is it’s data driven. Right? Numbers driven so it’s not just about the data. It’s about constructing a test and learn or test and refine environment and we apply that kind of discipline to everything we do. So if we come up with a new sales incentive program and roll that out, we measure how that performs against certain key metrics, the kinds of brokers who are selling, who’s selling what, and so on, and always try and arrive at some kind of ROI return on investment tied to that initiative and it’s iterative. You know that there’s no, a lot of times you win games with singles and buns and not home runs.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:29:22]:
So we’re always in the process of tweaking and refining and finding ways to be more effective on not just the sales arena, but in all areas of our business. So to something Kathe alluded to a moment ago we will discover for example, that in a particular marketplace we’re not doing so well and we may discover that our products don’t resonate in that area that leads us to go look at what the competitors are selling, do some comparisons and make a determination if we need to modify our product offerings in that place to be more competitive.
Sanjog Aul [00:29:56]:
Now let’s take a quick break listeners. When we come back, let’s look at the ability of a salesperson to be able to leverage a Big Data to become better as a salesperson versus only using it as a tool. So to what degree this technology or this data driven approach to how you get someone to take money out of their pocket makes a salesperson more effective, efficient and smarter? Please stay tuned. We’ll be right back and explore.
Sanjog Aul [00:31:50]:
Welcome back. So, Kevin, do you think we are still using this data and this analytics as a tool, or do you think the salesperson could be, besides getting enabled, the person can actually become effective and a better salesperson using Big Data?
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:32:09]:
I think it’s both. It’s clearly the data and the analytics are enablers. Again, as Kathe pointed out, we rely heavily on a broker network, and these individuals, these men and women, are very savvy if they don’t sell, they don’t eat right. They should then go into some other line of work so they really understand the rhythms of the business, they understand the customers out there, they practice and refine their sales pitches and so on.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:32:36]:
So they’ve been very receptive to the support and assistance we provide, not only in terms of data, but also in helping them understand some of the larger rhythms in the marketplace, the implications of healthcare reform, the changes in legislation that could impact their markets or the states in which they play and that helps foster and deepen a relationship that we have with the brokers, because brokers tend to, I don’t want to say have favorites, but, you know, they tend to give some of them a disproportionate amount of their book of business to one carrier as opposed to another. So it’s in our interest to keep them well educated, give them the products, the collateral, the marketing, communications they need to be effective in the jobs that they do.
Dr Kathe Fox [00:33:27]:
So I think that Kevin said something that perhaps we haven’t emphasized as much as we should, but that seems perfectly obvious, which is that the broker is obviously selling products from multiple companies. I mean, the broker is also selling all of the products of our competitors as well and so from a broker perspective, if we think of Big Data sort of having two sides to it in the sales process. One side of it is to provide information about members, members, purchasing patterns, their utilization patterns, etc but the other side of it is the analysis of the, let’s call it the successes, the wins and losses of the broker, which is a very, very interesting area because it brings into play sort of the behavior and the, the capabilities of the broker in addition to the actual strengths and weaknesses of the specific products that the broker is selling so from where I sit, I would say that the use of Big Data for an individual broker is critical in terms of their ability to understand what’s successful for them and how to direct their efforts in order to meet and grow their sales quotas.
Sanjog Aul [00:34:55]:
Now, if you were to ask you, Kathe, what is it that the salespeople say in terms of what all investments that have been made, all the numbers that have been provided, what is their direct input to you folks?
Dr Kathe Fox [00:35:12]:
Usually their direct input to us is around shortcomings in the products that we’re offering. We need products that have more first dollar coverage. We need products that have more out of network coverage. We need products that have greater limits on access to ancillary services, things like that, because they’ll be telling us that in the market if they have products like that from competitors, that they’ve been more successful in selling those and you know, as our president Mark Berglini is fond of saying, all healthcare is local and that’s very true and even though we think of healthcare in this large homogeneous way, in fact it is very local. You need to craft products that are specific to the market.
Dr Kathe Fox [00:36:10]:
People buy healthcare locally and therefore you need to make sure, and let me tell, and brokers are selling their products locally. You need to make sure that the products that we’re offering fit with the kinds of services that are available in that market and fit with the utilization biases or characteristics of that area. I mean, we know there’s an enormous amount of research that’s been done about geographic variation in access and use of healthcare services and obviously that information fits together very closely with the kinds of things that we do from a Big Data analytic perspective in terms of understanding and building and selling the products that we offer.
Sanjog Aul [00:36:57]:
Now, the investments that have already been made and Kevin, this is for you and the trials that have been carried out. Do you think you can isolate a small group or percentage of, or the type for that matter of data and analytics that has truly helped them because you could load them with all different slice and dicing of whatever information is available. But what’s truly helping out? And if you were to say I spend $100 on all of this analytics and it is an 80, 20 rules, only 20% of the analytics working, what are you seeing out there when you look at big data versus how it’s enabling sales?
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:37:40]:
You know, the underpinnings of Big Data here and I think at any corporation, go well beyond just sales. You know, we support a range of business functions, marketing, operations, product development and so on. So it’s not always possible to sort of break out the impact in one particular area. We can see from our own data in terms of performance and again, these things are complicated. It’s not a perfect laboratory out there with control groups there are lots of factors that contribute to our success and the ability of us to grow our book of business consistently year over year over year but some of that, you know, can be attributable to failures on the part of the competition as much as successes on our part.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:38:24]:
So it’s a little hard to pinpoint a specific number that you can say it caused X or generated Y but we do consistently and religiously apply metrics to all of our projects and all of our initiatives to demonstrate value add and return and those things that work, we refine and keep working and deploying and those things that don’t work, we stop doing and look, we learn as much from the things that don’t work as we do from the things that do. So we see Big Data, we see analytics, we see data driven. Decision making is just foundational.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:39:04]:
It’s table stakes today in any large company that’s consumer facing and probably in other arenas as well. So we live and we are developing disciplines around this to grow our business and very, you know, obviously very pleased. It’s an appropriate investment and it’s an investment that will continue to be made as it becomes, you know, we continue to demonstrate the success that can get engendered by understanding the patterns of behavior in our members, in our groups and how we manage our business?
Sanjog Aul [00:39:39]:
Now, do you think we can have salespeople who typically likes to keep things simple for themselves and for their customers, because that’s when they can effectively sell. How are we keeping things simple behind the scenes, no matter how complicated things are? So, Kathe, what is it that’s done by the technology group and the analytics group or should be done by these groups behind the scenes so that what’s presented to the salespeople is not overwhelming because we don’t want to take them out of their core DNA?
Dr Kathe Fox [00:40:09]:
So we absolutely shield sort of what I’ll call our analytic end users from a lot of what goes on in order to, to get to the results that we share with them but I think it’s a two way street. We also listen very closely to our sales teams, to the brokers, etc, in terms of what kind of information will they find the most useful and how it should be presented to them. We present a lot of information in dashboards, we present a lot of information trends because that’s something that they are accustomed to be seeing and if they’re interested in it, they can also very easily link it together with information that they’re getting from about other companies that they’re selling, etc and we find that that really works the most effectively for them. We also use techniques where, if we are entering into, let’s say, a new area of investigation, what do we think is the role of, for instance, information from some of the social networking interactions, et cetera, we might actually take some time and do some background work with them, sort of education, kind of webinar kinds of arrangements, et cetera, to get them much more knowledgeable about that area and then extract from that kernels of information that we think will be useful for them in the sales process. I mean, my experience has been, and I think Kevin has said this as well, is that the people who are selling in this market are in fact extremely well schooled in how the market works and what their purchasers are looking for.
Dr Kathe Fox [00:42:02]:
They understand very at a very sophisticated level how health insurance works, how the healthcare system works, and they use it to their advantage. It’s not all that dissimilar from working with a financial planner or somebody who you expect to have a much greater understanding of the market than you do. You’re making a purchasing decision, but you really rely on experts in the field to help you understand and to sift the information for you as a purchaser. And that’s only in our experience with the brokers and as even in the employer purchasing situation with HR, etc. These people are extremely knowledgeable and they love the information it’s actually an area where information is extremely powerful. They love seeing the information and they expect us to be able to prove and defend our results based on information and we try as best we can to deliver it to them.
Sanjog Aul [00:43:08]:
Now, Kevin, wouldn’t it be beautiful that if salesperson comes back and say, my customer says, I want this, and this is how it should be done? And you say, we already know that, we are already working on it because our Big Data told us so how much of that wow factor has actually been introduced if you are still dependent on salesperson to go and have those conversations and then bring back the information to you? It’s same old. So what did big data do in a major way which would require or justify the related investments?
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:43:41]:
Yeah, I’m not sure we see so much of a wow factor as a confirmation of either opportunities or challenges that exist in the marketplace. As I alluded to earlier, we may discover in a particular city or metro area we’re not as competitive as we would like to be and we do rely, believe me, heavily on our brokers because they’re, they got their, the feet on the ground,they’re the people that are local that can tell us, you know, hey, why are you, why are you selling someone else’s products and not ours? And that often leads to again, insights into product design, into service support, into pricing, where there may be opportunities for us to reconfigure to become more competitive and more effective and in competing in those marketplaces. I think to the extent that there’s a wow factor, I think brokers, and this is not true not only for brokers, but providers and others. One of the great, you know, advances that Big Data and what I, what I would also call data visualization offer is to allow people to visualize patterns in the data and they get to see things that, don’t necessarily bounce off of a pivot table or a spreadsheet and over time we as many organizations have become more skilled in packaging and displaying or summarizing that information and visuals that do create that aha moment to say, wow, what’s going on over in this region of the country or this state, or why did this product, quarter over quarter, month over month, see a sharp decrease in sales? So it’s an indispensable addition, if you will, to the tools and the arrows in our quiver that we have by which we go out seeking opportunity in the market in a very competitive and ferocious marketplace.
Sanjog Aul [00:45:38]:
Let’s take a quick break listeners. When we come back, let’s look at the people side of it. At the end of the day, a sales force is comprised of salespeople. Yes, we want to refine the process. Yes, we want to use data and analytics to help them get better. Most of the places where we try to do things similar to this, they fall flat because of the very adoption. Why doesn’t an organization which has all the opportunity to use analytics that’s made available still doesn’t want to use it and they want to go about their own ways doing the things that they’ve been doing for the last 10, 20 years, whatever the tenure has been. So how do you make sure that when the big data related investments are made and analytics is presented, the sales force, the sales organization embraces it, uses it and actually leverages it to bring the best results that are possible.
Sanjog Aul [00:46:27]:
Please stay tuned. We’ll be right back. And explore.
Sanjog Aul [00:47:59]:
Welcome back. So Kathe, perhaps you could take this in terms of the adoption. So we understand that healthcare is going aggressively in using Big Data and any and all possible technologies and process improvements to make sure that we get better. Many a times it’s seen, I’m not sure, always in healthcare, but maybe in other industries where all the information that’s offered to salespeople, it seems like they are built off a different DNA that the process centric approach and or something which is very data driven approach, not always gets adopted to the degree that you would like. So how can we get the most out of the investment that’s been made because at the last mile it’s all about people again.
Dr Kathe Fox [00:48:41]:
Well, first of all, I think we’ve been talking a lot about the affordable care act and what it’s going to do in terms of bringing new people into the market. And so I think that from a sales perspective, people who are selling in this market have to understand that they have a whole new group of people who previously might never have purchased healthcare and so these are sophisticated salespeople usually and therefore they are thirsty for information in order to help them understand how to start to get involved in that market. So I think, at least here, I think we’ve been seeing already the adoption of big data analytic methods to help in that sales process. And I think what you’ll see in general in sales is that if a historic method starts to prove to be unsuccessful or if all of a sudden you have a new market that you’ve never had to sell to before, if you found information to be helpful and supportive of your sales processes, then you’re going to be an early adopter of these kinds of techniques.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:49:52]:
And let me, if I could add to that in a different dimension, which is perhaps a little more on the technical side, we’re seeing the, you know, adoption and deployment of various form factors, right? It’s no longer just coming in with an order book. You come in with a laptop now, you come in with an iPad, you come in with a mobile and to the extent that we can provide them with tools, guided selling techniques, scripting, comparison charts, benefit coverage, detail displayed in ways that’s readily understandable, not just by the broker, but by the prospect, all of these things in one way, shape or form actually derive themselves or downstream derivatives from big data and analytics. We’ve been very pleased. For example, we have our own chat capability on our site called Ask and, and the uptake in volume there has been very sizable orders of magnitude. And we’re finding, you know, every week we keep tweaking that and changing that to respond to the kinds of queries and questions that are being posed that we hadn’t thought of previously. So it’s again, it’s an iterative refinement and a dynamic that helps us both provide real time answers to important questions and to provide better customer engagement and allow us to also identify areas where we may need to put more time, energy and effort in a particular category of service or product support.
Sanjog Aul [00:51:27]:
Now, when we look at the salesperson’s mindset who’s always used to using their own intuition and other training and experience that they have had, and now we bring this big data, it’s almost like buying a GPS for your car and then if you lose it, you simply feel scared going to any other place because you don’t know how will you navigate through it. Are we in any way making people dependent on big data or any other analytics and taking away the very core that a salesperson has, which is intuition and knowing how to navigate through different situations and actually make the sale. Cathy, what do you think from a people standpoint? And that very. Could it have a crippling effect?
Dr Kathe Fox [00:52:09]:
Well, I don’t know. I still know where my maps are. So I think that people will continue to use, you know, as you say, intuition, etc, as we’re, as a starting point. We all start with our core capabilities and then, then add to it additional information that makes it possible for us to reach better decisions. I certainly think that there are many, many things that we now have at our fingertips in this highly interactive electronic world that I for one, would find it hard to do without. I think Big Data is at. As it loses some of its hype, it will start to be sort of just incorporated and a constant so that the context of sort of quote taking it away, etc, will start to look like, you know, you go to a restaurant and they don’t have WiFi. You sort of like, how could that possibly be? So I think that will take a little bit of time, but I think it will become just part of the daily fabric of our thinking and our decision making.
Sanjog Aul [00:53:30]:
Now, Kevin, do you think there is anything that you would look at with respect to sales leadership’s mindset and the way they carry out? What should they be doing in order to making the best use of what you bring to the table, which is sales analytics and other tools, leveraging Big data. What’s your appeal to that group?
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:53:51]:
Well, you know, the nice thing is that this stuff, they get it and that’s the biggest advantage we have. You know, they’re interested in anything and everything that will help them be more effective salespeople and, you know, this is their, this is their job, this is how they earn a living. So this stuff really does, you know, resonate with them it’s not like we’re trying to teach, you know, the old saw about an old dog, new tricks. That’s not to say there aren’t some people that don’t embrace this as readily as others, but on the main, you know, everybody, you know, change is a constant and everybody’s embracing the new tools, the techniques, the new types of data, the new types of selling approaches that have evolved over the last several years. You know, phones now, I like to kid that I have this device I carry around,
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:54:45]:
it’s a GPS, it’s a Rolodex, it gives me access to the Internet and oh, by the way, I can even make phone calls with it. Right? So it’s the same sort of thing we’re putting in the hands of our salespeople. New tools and technology that never existed before and they like it and they want it, and it helps them be more effective, more knowledgeable on the products and services they sell, enables them to streamline the enrollment process so it’s not just about the front end of selling it to the back end as well. Enables them to query databases regarding the status of an application. Perhaps a piece of information is missing that needs to be garnered from the prospect and so on. So it’s an easy sell
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:55:30]:
if you will, they like it, we like that they like it and we listen to the things, you know, we support here a an 800 number for all of our brokers and we get input constantly on things that they would like us to do better or refine or gee, it would be great if you do X, Y and Z and we listen because it’s in everyone’s interest to be better in all the things that we do.
Sanjog Aul [00:55:56]:
On behalf of the show and our listeners, thank you so much, Kathy and Kevin, for sharing your thoughts on how Big Data can actually help sales make its numbers.
Dr Kathe Fox [00:56:06]:
You’re more than welcome.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:56:08]:
Thank you.
Sanjog Aul [00:56:11]:
And so if listeners, if you have any questions or comments, send us to viewsciotalkradio.com and also please like us on Facebook, search for CIO talk radio and be sure to follow us on Twitter. Thank you again for listening to CIO Talk Radio. This is Sanjog Aul your talk show host and next week take care and God bless.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:56:34]:
Thank you for tuning in to CIO Talk Radio.
Dr. Kevin Kramer [00:56:37]:
To learn more about the show, please visit wwciotalkradio.com Join Sanjog Aul next Wednesday at.
Speaker A [00:56:45]:
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