Jonathan See
Traditional, centralized IT operating model is not adaptable or agile enough to support staying competitive in this continuously evolving digital marketplace. How can we reorganize IT, so it integrates directly into the business while remaining centralized where appropriate to maintain benefits from the scale? What should we change in investments, architecture, governance, and talent to bring IT out of the back office?
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Sanjog Aul [00:01:00]:
Hello, and welcome to the segment on CTN. To learn more, please visit ciotalknetwork.com, and our topic for today is Bringing IT Out Of The Back Office. Our guest is Jonathan Sees, the CIO of Pepperdine University. Hi, Jonathan. How are you?
Jonathan Sees [00:01:17]:
I’m doing well. Good morning, Sanjog Aul.
Sanjog Aul [00:01:19]:
Good morning to you as well. So, Jonathan, we know that organizations are all trying to be agile, basically digitally disruptive and want to be competitive. Now while IT has stepped up and tried to align to business, we know that it is still advocating somewhat of a central command and control where business wants the same IT to be embedded within their respective departments. So what we wanted to explore here is to see what form of organization that IT be put in so that we can, of course, use wherever the economy of scales can happen because of the things that we are trying to do. We’re centralizing and also decentralize wherever business wants to be. So that said, the first question I have for you is what, I’d say, gaps in adaptability or agility or other, ways that you’re expected to serve business are we finding when as you see, the businesses are trying to go towards digital transformation or use the newer technologies or, newer computing paradigms?
Jonathan Sees [00:02:33]:
Oh, good. Very good question, and it’s very broad, and I’m really experiencing this at Pepperdine, and I’m sure my fellow peers across higher education are also experiencing the same thing too. There’s two sides to this. The gaps and the agility from an IT perspective within IT that I am seeing today is we need to have a better understanding of how the business is run, and the IT folks need to have not only that understanding but also be able to speak in business terms, not technology terms. On the other end, for business units to want to absorb their own IT group in a very decentralized environment, what they need to understand too is in terms of how best to utilize the resource at an institutional level. It is important for those decentralized IT folks to understand the broader IT landscape, what are the opportunities and challenges across the institution and what can be done at a local level? That level of understanding needs to be shared on both sides.
Sanjog Aul [00:03:50]:
So what you are saying here is that while we want to understand and support business, business should also come and understand us, but do you think that’s the best thing for the organization? Because while I’m not saying that you should be order takers,
Jonathan Sees [00:04:08]:
Right.
Sanjog Aul [00:04:09]:
Business wants to move forward in a given direction, and they should not think how it is gonna get done. They should be focusing on what.
Jonathan Sees [00:04:17]:
That’s right, and the alignment effort really needs to be more on the IT side. We need to have a greater strategic alignment with their objectives and priorities of the business. Businesses are not expected to know how to accomplish certain things. They have a certain end goal, and where IT comes in is how can we align ourselves to ensure that we dedicate enough resources centrally to assist them accomplish those goals. Now there are things that they need to keep in mind as well. How would their objectives and goals locally affect their whole institution at a broad level as well? They often would want to accomplish one objective but then there may be another business unit or school, in my case, that wants to do the same thing too. So there are economies of scale that need to be taken into consideration when undertaking localized objectives.
Sanjog Aul [00:05:28]:
So in my view, anything which is a utility, which could be, where there’s no differentiation as such whether you centralize or you embed, then you’re better off centralizing it, getting the economy of scale. Anything which is a non utility, which is very customized to some, organization or say a department within an organization, that’s the one where there is a better chance of you getting more incrementally more or it could be a huge quantum leap in terms of value that can be created by embedding it. So is this a tug of war going on where IT advocates that this item is a utility, thus bring it over? And business says, you know what? I have a custom need. No. It has to be embedded.
Jonathan Sees [00:06:15]:
Right. I would say that anything that may be considered a utility. A good example would be email. Email and wireless. Actually wireless are good examples to wireless connection. I consider these as broad utility that should be undertaken and managed by central IT. By central IT, any customized application that the business may need can be considered decentralized and embedded within their groups so that they have full control of the use of those applications.
Sanjog Aul [00:06:51]:
So if you do that, that means are we are we on the same page, or do you think this is a nonissue that people have already started? Or rather IT, as a department, has already started recognizing and embedding people which support that application, who have a reporting relationship to the business, and they are basically delivering to what business wants and IT. They’ve kinda detached themselves from IT or they have, say, a very thin dotted line to IT. Is that already happening?
Jonathan Sees [00:07:21]:
It has already happened in my environment, and really, I believe it would be a mixture of all of those across all the higher education. It depends on the size of the institution you work the organization you work in. In my case, Pepperdine is not a big institution, but then if you compare it with other institutions like UCLA or USC, which are very large institutions, they have decentralized IT and oftentimes those decentralized IT operate on their own. In my case, there is a good relationship with the distributed IT staff even though they do not report to me.
Sanjog Aul [00:08:04]:
So in the type of environment where we are talking about, the business is always saying I want everything yesterday. And I want yeah. So that that’s understood, and we are kinda used to it when we talk about IT leaders trying to manage business demands. Now there are also, budgetary or resource issues.
Jonathan Sees [00:08:28]:
So
Sanjog Aul [00:08:29]:
in this case, what do you think, the business is facing? Do they not understand how much something takes, or they just wants not I would not wanna, like, generalize, but use IT as a scapegoat when something doesn’t get done as a business capability, which was to be realized using IT capability?
Jonathan Sees [00:08:55]:
I would not call that as they don’t understand. I think it’s more of their focus is really trying to accomplish and elevate their business units, make it better. Where central IT, we have to juggle our resources across all business units and we have to prioritize. In my role, I have to prioritize. There are definitely more demand from the business units than we can fulfill, and so we just need to communicate clearly with them, set proper expectations, and communicate them throughout the year, not just once or twice during the year, but throughout the year to really understand what their opportunities and challenges are and what IT can be of great value to them. So if we see that there is a pattern across the institution where there is a certain need, then that can be a coordinated effort with all the stakeholders to accomplish what they want to do in the most resource efficient manner.
Sanjog Aul [00:10:10]:
Now what are the reasons why you would see, a business leader saying, I want you to embed a resource because they are not getting anything from centralized IT? Is this a push coming from business or IT is trying to be proactive?
Jonathan Sees [00:10:26]:
I would say both, but mostly it would be a push and request from the business units, so that they can have immediate response that whenever there is a technology issue that there will be someone just, let’s say, two doors down, it can just go down there and, hey. Fix the problem. We have a model like that. Part of we have a hybrid model and one of our models at Pepperdine is very similar to that. Otherwise, without any embedding IT personnel into their business units, they would just follow a central process and we would respond as quickly as we can within 2 hours.
Sanjog Aul [00:11:08]:
When we look at the the way IT should be structured and deliver value, is there a vision that business brings to say, okay, this is how we wanna do it or they just pose the problem and then you say, okay, go figure?
Jonathan Sees [00:11:21]:
Most of the time they pose a problem. I need this. I need this done this way. I need to accomplish x y and z. Help us accomplish this. It’s no different than oftentimes, and it’s not uncommon across higher education where business units would purchase a software or license a software, without discussing first with IT how this would work within the network and only to find out it is not compatible and there are more problems and more resources dedicated to make things work.
Sanjog Aul [00:12:03]:
So the reason, you know, our conversation around IT is kinda taking, and as a making an assumption that IT is just about tools and software, whereas IT is a lot more. Where you are trying to have the information flow properly, there’s governance, there are architecture, there are people, and many other things. So when the when you’re talking about business stakeholders who are trying to say, okay. I wanna exert control over how things get done for me, for my business function, and for that I want IT to be embedded with within my business. Do they realize that this is gonna bring a baggage which may they may or may not even either understand or they may not want?
Jonathan Sees [00:12:46]:
Rephrase that question again, Sanjog Aul.
Sanjog Aul [00:12:49]:
I’m saying if a business says, I want you to bring IT and embed it within my business so it is fast, I get better response time. It is not just about tool and software.
Jonathan Sees [00:13:00]:
Right.
Sanjog Aul [00:13:00]:
Because you could even have people. You could have a governance structure which would allow them to run it safely because at the end of the day, somebody is to take ownership of whether the information that is flowing has the integrity, the safety, the availability, etcetera.
Jonathan Sees [00:13:14]:
Correct.
Sanjog Aul [00:13:15]:
So are they willing to take that responsibility of that component of IT which they wanted? Because it is not just putting a software.
Jonathan Sees [00:13:25]:
Right, and I would say oftentimes no. The answer is no. I have seen business units requesting and demanding access and control over a piece of tool, a piece of software, but not wanting the responsibility to maintain or the accountability to ensure that it is optimized and with utmost data integrity, especially when there’s data being transferred in and out. You cannot have authority without the responsibility and accountability.
Sanjog Aul [00:14:02]:
Let’s take a quick break, listeners. We’ll be right back after these messages, and we talk about this accountability responsibility. If you are actually becoming aware as a business that you want IT to be embedded, then what training, what education, what exposure they need to be provided before they take this on, and how does that even happen? Please stay tuned, listeners. We’ll be right back.
Speaker 0 [00:14:31]:
When it comes to business, you’ll find the experts here. Voice America Business Network.
Speaker 0 [00:14:37]:
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Speaker 0 [00:15:04]:
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Speaker 0 [00:16:08]:
When it comes to business, you’ll find the experts here. Voice America Business Network.
Speaker 0 [00:16:20]:
You are listening to CTN, CIO Talk Network with Sanjog Aul. To learn more about our program, please visit ciotalknetwork.com. Now back to the show.
Sanjog Aul [00:16:33]:
Welcome back. So training, education, exposure, what all do we need to offer to the business or they have to step up and get it before they can really take IT or that component of IT which they want it to be embedded within their business function and embrace it?
Jonathan Sees [00:16:52]:
Training is gonna be a very integral part in order for any business units to absorb the IT. When I say training, not only technical training, but also business process and analysis and those types of business process reengineering, a good business process mindset is also going to be critical. So it goes beyond just technical capabilities, in order to have an embedded IT within the business unit because otherwise, without that component, you will not be optimizing that IT resource within the unit.
Sanjog Aul [00:17:34]:
Talk about the specific business use cases which is triggering this embedding in the first place? Is there something which you did not deliver, or are there new things which are happening which were not happening? Because this whole concept of embedding IT is not new. It’s a couple of years old, but this outcry is becoming louder and
Jonathan Sees [00:17:58]:
louder. Right. I’ll give you, there are many examples. One good example that comes to me right away is really having an IT resource in the business unit that is fully understanding of how the data in higher education is a great asset. We have been collecting data of our students and their academic performance. Having an IT personnel that is very knowledgeable about the data is very beneficial for the business unit because that person can then really help the whole business unit. Okay, this is what we are seeing and again it goes to learning analytics and operational analyst. This is what we’re seeing in terms of how students are performing with the data we have, and these are the areas, the gaps, the risk factors, there may be early risk indicators that they can access through and they can interpret through the data, and by having someone local, we can quickly respond to any risk issues, and again I speak about student success. If there are early risk indicators, what can the business unit the school and the department do to change the course and help the students succeed? That is something that they can benefit from having in a local IT but they’re also partnering. They can also partner with central IT to accomplish that very same goal.
Sanjog Aul [00:19:39]:
When you’re looking at the IT embracing a business mindset and trying to align itself, we had been talking about IT aligning to business forever, but given IT is no longer just plumbing, it is embedded in the business, so then there should be convergence. How do you think IT leaders are looking at convergence? Or would they still say, we are another department which needs to support marketing or HR or other functions versus saying that we are the very fabric which is embedding itself into each. What do you think why this convergence concept not sinking in in the IT leaders yet?
Jonathan Sees [00:20:31]:
I would say because some of our business units are, for the most part, still operating in a very siloed manner. I use the word siloed in the decentralized, departmentalized manner. They operate within a vacuum. It requires a lot of communication effort to have them see across those siloed walls. Convergence is going to be necessary, especially nowadays, when resources are really limited. With the cost of education being a big topic across the country, it is more important now to look at ways to look at cost efficiencies and economies of scale not only within the business unit, but across all business units.
Sanjog Aul [00:21:28]:
So scaling doesn’t mean that you separate yourself, right? I mean, there has to be a hybrid model or something different. This is almost like a what we call as a new box. We are not saying go out of the box or stay within the box. Maybe a new box has to be created, which essentially embeds IT within, but also allows the economy of scale. So we cannot say that we will continue to align, which is almost like a parallel line.
Jonathan Sees [00:21:54]:
Right, and it’s a new box and maybe it’s even more so instead of a solid wall, maybe have a more porous wall between the groups. There are reasons why business units operate the way they do and there are certain things that cannot be centralized, certain customized business processes that cannot be centralized, but there are also many aspects that can be centralized. So I think the hybrid model, more a porous wall versus solid siloed wall would be very beneficial for the whole organization.
Sanjog Aul [00:22:33]:
So business considers and this I actually a good friend of mine, Susan Crams, she wrote eight things that business hate about IT, you know, long time back, and many of those areas are still true where one of them is that business considers that IT is a control freak. So that while you would say convergence and while you’ll say alignment, etcetera, but there is always a tone where corporate IT says, I want to have some control because you may mess up. It’s almost like telling your child that I’ll always be looking above your, you know, through your through like, anything that you’re doing, I’m gonna be watching you because you might mess up. That doesn’t instill confidence in business to do what they are supposed to do, and that doesn’t help IT in terms of doing less with less instead of more with less.
Jonathan Sees [00:23:21]:
I agree with that. The model you just spoke about is where central IT maintains full control. That is a model that I believe is no longer practiced, at least not much in higher ed anymore. There are transactional things, very customized applications that make a lot of sense for the business units to fully own and maintain. Central IT cannot do it all. I definitely cannot do it all for my division here. So I really partner with the business units to have them take ownership of their components where it lends more value and where we can centrally contribute to that value, we will do so, but there are certain things that we just don’t manage for them. We cannot do it all. That really is that simple.
Sanjog Aul [00:24:22]:
So give me an example of suppose in your case you mentioned that you’ve been attempting to go in this direction where you decentralized as needed or said only centralized as needed but otherwise stay decent decentralized. So in a higher ed example here or the context, we know that there would be things related to student welfare. There would be some alumni, and then there would be the actual learning that’s happening.
Jonathan Sees [00:24:45]:
Right.
Sanjog Aul [00:24:45]:
And there may be systems around all of that. So are you saying that you just take the provost or someone who’s a dean, he will have a system where IT people will work reporting to him or her directly, and everything will be done by them, and as they have got nothing to do with you, only they talk to you when they need, you know, some help with email and Internet?
Jonathan Sees [00:25:05]:
Right. So online learning is online programs is a very good example. We have some schools at Pepperdine that have already created some online programs, and the other schools are beginning to get on board. Those schools have their online e-learning staff embedded within their group, within their schools so that they can provide immediate support and service to their faculty and students during and in preparation for those online sessions. That is one example of how they can benefit from having their local staff. We will definitely assist where we can, but with limited resources we can only also do so much. So for them the benefit is having a local staff that is dedicated to doing that, adds greater value at our local levels.
Sanjog Aul [00:26:10]:
So here when you are looking at the whole transformation that we are looking at, to what degree do you think business is driving it or they’re expecting IT to drive this decentralization? You know, who’s holding the baton here?
Jonathan Sees [00:26:32]:
I would say both. When business units want to drive, it’s more often because of a specific objective. So it could be related to enrollment challenges where we need to increase a school may need to increase enrollment. So they said okay fine we need to increase our enrollment base, so we need to extend this traditional program online. So in those cases, they do, and in other cases where we can assist at a more institution wide level in helping, for institution wide level in helping, for example, train, develop faculty members to teach online, we can assist in those areas.
Sanjog Aul [00:27:22]:
So in this case, what you’ve shared is that was a capability you offered as a business to teach online and you went ahead and trained those academics to teach online. So they’re like business users.
Jonathan Sees [00:27:34]:
Correct.
Sanjog Aul [00:27:35]:
But now when go ahead.
Jonathan Sees [00:27:36]:
Correct, and the faculty members, I want to add, we work closely with them so that they are the ones who actually design the course, because it is there. We need to make sure that the tools is the easy part, is how do we make sure the tools that they are using suits their teaching style. That is how and they’re the ones who are essentially the maestro.
Sanjog Aul [00:28:04]:
Sure, and I agree with you. So that is how it should be done where they’re the ones who are actually designing and that’s their job anyways, and you provide a tool or you provide the environment in which they can do it with ease.
Jonathan Sees [00:28:16]:
Right.
Sanjog Aul [00:28:16]:
That’s understood. Now there would be some capabilities that you would like to say embed in a tool or in the workflow which results in a good quality online course because it would not be someone sitting in one shot and build a course. There would be so many different things that may be happening as part of course development. Right. So there is something to be said about having appropriate tools. Another is to also have a proper workflow, which has the checks and balances, and even that workflow is managed or automated wherever appropriate with the appropriate collaboration
Jonathan Sees [00:28:51]:
Right.
Sanjog Aul [00:28:51]:
So that it works. So now all of this that I’m mentioning here could be very custom to a given environment. Yes. There may be some available out of the shelf tools which you could use, but there is always something custom to be done. So the goal here is to ideally have an IT person or someone who’s almost like a pseudo product owner. Embedding that person or that team within the group working closely with the faculty to be able to create the desired changes in that tool.
Jonathan Sees [00:29:21]:
At the quality that the faculty wants and at the quality the school demands as well.
Sanjog Aul [00:29:27]:
Yes, and so while you’re doing that, so this person or this team or that workflow that was to be designed, does then in that case, IT steps up to say, you know what? We are, like, almost independent objective business analyst, and what you’re trying to accomplish, this is how you should go about it, and when they share this information, does the faculty heed their advice?
Jonathan Sees [00:29:50]:
I would say it’s a very good question. I think it’s a really a it has to be a partnership. Whereas IT has certain experience, we can lend conversations to help shape the program and guide the faculty accordingly, but I would say the faculty also has a lot to say in the process and how to shape the workflow.
Sanjog Aul [00:30:18]:
So let’s take a quick break. Let’s continue this conversation because what we want to expose is the life in the day of IT, whether we talk about IT as a group of people or as individual or what they do while being embedded in business. Please stay tuned, listeners. We’ll be right back.
Speaker 0 [00:30:39]:
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Your growing business needs a highly productive workforce, effectively communicating and collaborating without exposing corporate data to cyber attacks. Are you looking to balance security and workforce productivity? Move beyond short term measures and securely scale your business with BlackBerry Enterprise Mobility Management Solutions. To learn more, please visit blackberry.com/enterprise.
Speaker 0 [00:31:15]:
Patient centered care requires a connected enterprise. Are you ready? If you’re looking to scale your health care IT efforts, visit redmane.com/health today. Whether it’s to connect data from multiple partner solutions or developing software for unique needs, Redmane can help. To find out how Redmane can help your company deliver on the patient centered care promise, visit redmane.com/health or call (773) 693-3919. Visit today.
Speaker 0 [00:31:47]:
Predict your company’s future by creating it. Is your workforce able to connect, exchange ideas, and share brilliance simply and securely? Create tomorrow, today. Empower your people to innovate anytime and anywhere with secured BlackBerry Enterprise Mobility Management and document sharing solutions. To learn more, visit blackberry.com/enterprise.
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You are listening to CTN, CIO Talk Network with Sanjog Aul. Now back to the show.
Sanjog Aul [00:32:38]:
So, Jonathan, let’s explore or rather describe day in the life of IT, which is embedded in business. When I say IT, it means let’s talk about the resources, of course, that you will offer, but primarily how the teams, the individuals, the groups work together and what are their trials and tribulations, what are their challenges, disappointments, and learning?
Jonathan Sees [00:33:05]:
At Pepperdine, we have a small group of technology generalists, and they’re experts, jack of all trades, they are embedded into certain divisions within our undergraduate school. So we call them the technology liaisons. These employees are really embedded within each business unit. They’re IT employees, but the business units treat them as their own because they have been working closely with them. In fact, the business units don’t see them as centralized IT, but rather see them as their departmental IT specific to their needs. They currently use them for all things technology, more tech support, how to troubleshoot certain application issues, and how to further adopt certain technology tools to further extend their division, their business unit’s mission, and objectives. These folks are embedded in them 40-50+ hours a week to accomplish their specific goals and needs, even though they are considered central IT employees. The benefits for having embedded IT within those groups is that you get a much faster response time in terms of getting things accomplished. The risk factor is that the resource can operate in a world where resources are limited, when you cannot really extend and dedicate precious IT personnel resources to one group and when other areas are in need of greater resources, and when those resources go off and do different things not aligned with the institution as a whole, it can be dangerous in terms of workflow and inefficient and costly use of resources where if they go down one path, there may be more efforts to be done to correct that path down the road.
Sanjog Aul [00:35:37]:
Sure. Now when we spoke about this, we naturally had a tendency to say, okay. Business doesn’t understand IT as well. So get them trained and maybe let them understand and appreciate what IT brings to the table. On the other hand, when you’re embedding an IT person within a business, and especially when they’re coming new, and they mostly may not have had that specific business domain experience, for them to be effective, for them to be able to play the business analyst or systems analyst and to understand and architect, the approach they can take to build systems and processes, they need to have business knowledge. So how much is business taking the time and the effort and energy and investing towards those IT people who are embedded? Are they being treated as, okay, I gave you certain work. Go do that job. Otherwise, you’re a stepchild.
Jonathan Sees [00:36:31]:
They are more the latter, I would say. Whereas for me at Pepperdine, getting my staff more knowledgeable in how business operates is key. I have often brought in colleagues from across the university to come and speak with us, to speak with my leadership group and I to kind of help share with us how they do business, how they are currently using technology to accomplish their business, what their opportunities and what their pain points are. The whole purpose for that is so my team, my IT employees gain a greater understanding of how business units operate and we operate differently. So the more we understand, the better equipped we are in filling the gaps where we see this tool can work to accomplish this gap this business is experiencing today. Without that connection, it’s hard for anyone to know that there are opportunities already in place to address certain issues and problems.
Sanjog Aul [00:37:59]:
Very interestingly in your responses, you said my IT people. I would like to see the business guy says they are my IT people. Because they think they don’t own them, and they don’t take full control and responsibility. How do you think they would ever invest? So it’s almost like trying to bring up somebody else’s child.
Jonathan Sees [00:38:20]:
It is. That’s a very good point. They do say my. They look at that as a dedicated resource. You cannot take it away even though they’re not paying for it, but at the same time, when it comes to further developing that resource, I take ownership of that because the more that I develop a staff member, the more skills that this person will have. It goes beyond just benefiting the employee, but it benefits the business unit as well because the more skills we have, the greater value we can generate for the business units. Professional development is a big piece of my CIO agenda, and that’s something that I embrace very closely.
Sanjog Aul [00:39:28]:
So in this whole equation, I’m trying to understand whether you take the lead in developing that person as a professional, whereas the person who is supposed to deliver to the business requires to learn more of the business, that environment, and yes, the skills and the talent, all that can be developed either even as a central function as an HR, but why is that your responsibility? Because if the person is embedded in that business that environment, business leader is the one closest to it, and they are in the best possible, I would say, sit you know, in an environment to be able to teach that person the skills and give them the experience in that context, and you are a little more remote, so you may not be the best qualified to train that person.
Jonathan Sees [00:40:15]:
And I would say they would definitely consider doing that if they were also paying, if the embedded IT people were truly their employee. In my model, the embedded IT folks are central IT employees.
Sanjog Aul [00:40:38]:
Okay. So that’s the structure you’ve kept, but what if it was like a shared service. So do you have, like, some sort of a payback model to say, okay, if I’m gonna have this person work at your
Jonathan Sees [00:40:48]:
We do. It would be in a form of a memo of understanding.
Sanjog Aul [00:40:54]:
So now this yeah. So I see what you’re saying here. So now let’s rethink this for a second. What would you change in this model that the business leader says, you know what? I want to develop this person.
Jonathan Sees [00:41:09]:
If they are willing to do that, I would definitely partner with them to share what to have developed. What is it that these folks need to further add value to the business units? I think that would be a great opportunity, and I would jump on that.
Sanjog Aul [00:41:29]:
So, yeah, you would do it. I mean, the reason I’m trying to dig deeper into this is because there must be some incentive that they’re not getting because of which they’re not coming to you, and another thing which you mentioned in your term and in your responses, you use the word resource. You know, anything which is a resource, we want to maximize the use versus developing that resource.
Jonathan Sees [00:41:51]:
Right.
Sanjog Aul [00:41:52]:
So if that’s the terminology we use to handle, say, people in this case, then we might be doing disservice to that person and disservice to that department and IT as a whole.
Jonathan Sees [00:42:02]:
It’s an investment. Professional development is an investment. You want to optimize the resource, but you cannot optimize a resource without making sure that the resource has all the necessary tools and skill sets. You cannot perform magic and oftentimes central IT is asked to perform magic to troubleshoot problems, but without the proper tools, investment in tools and resource, you’re not gonna get to that point quickly enough.
Sanjog Aul [00:42:34]:
Even a person is yeah. So if a person is not developing enough or to the expectation of the business, is that your problem, or should it be a business’s problem?
Jonathan Sees [00:42:44]:
I would say it would be a shared problem. In my role as CIO for the institution, I own the success of the business as well. That’s how I perceive my role. From a business perspective, I would want them to share part of that responsibility as well.
Sanjog Aul [00:43:07]:
Let’s take a quick break, listeners. We’ll be right back, and let’s talk about the funding. So if all of this is happening and, Jonathan, great point about you running organization in such a way, almost like a shared service, where you’re offering and that’s just one way to do it. Now here, the outcome that we are hoping for is that whosoever or whatsoever has been offered to them and embedded, they take full responsibility even though they’re spending money. What should be the type of organizational structure and funding model? And we don’t have to take what you’re doing, Jonathan, at Pepperdine at this time. If I gave you a white sheet of paper and say, let’s draw a funding model and an organizational structure, which will actually allow getting IT from the back office, get embedded, and get the most value where business takes ownership. Please stay tuned, listeners. We’ll be right back.
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You are listening to CTN CIO Talk Network with Sanjog Aul. Now back to the show.
Sanjog Aul [00:46:05]:
Welcome back. So, we use the word resource for IT, which is embedded. How about treating it as an asset and rethink on a white sheet of paper removing all variables that you may have. In an ideal state, what would you make an IT organization to be, and how would you work with the business so that they own the embedded asset?
Jonathan Sees [00:46:34]:
If I have the opportunity to redesign this whole process with a clean slate, IT needs to be at all business decision making tables. That is so critical. Technology being so integral in everything we do, we need to maximize the use of tech embedded in our business process. When businesses get to a business decision making table, IT needs to be present so that there is that discussion that takes place, but also the laying out the responsibilities and ownership piece for embedded IT.
Sanjog Aul [00:47:23]:
And would you put some caveats there so that business which is currently, while wanting to use the resource and not willing to treat it as an asset and invest in it, would have a change of heart?
Jonathan Sees [00:47:40]:
They would. If they perceive the IT asset as partly or wholly theirs, I think there would be definitely a change in perspective in how they utilize the resource to their advantage.
Sanjog Aul [00:48:03]:
Let’s talk about the architecture and governance. So, yes, if you have an off the shelf tool that is being used or someone who’s been given a task, that’s one thing, but you and I both know, and of course the listeners who are leaders in their respective organizations know, that if you don’t have proper architecture going in and you don’t have a governance put in place after something is implemented, you will have leakages, and you will majorly offset the value IT could have otherwise delivered.
Jonathan Sees [00:48:34]:
Correct.
Sanjog Aul [00:48:36]:
So if we are looking at this and we’re talking in context of IT getting embedded in business, do you think business is going to be looking at governance and architecture related things. Not the geek part of it means, like, the core technology, but having at least an input or some form of say because that leakage is also going to result in leakage on the business side for them.
Jonathan Sees [00:49:02]:
It is no doubt very critical that they have a very sound governance structure for any objectives they’re trying to accomplish. Because without that, you’re going to have leakage. I have seen poor projects that are poorly governed, poorly managed, that have resulted in clicking the reset button to redo the project. So you’re costing more to accomplish what you should have done in the first place.
Sanjog Aul [00:49:44]:
And so that’s a reality. So the next question is if this is understood, is business willing to actually think about it, provide input, and own if there is a leakage?
Jonathan Sees [00:50:00]:
Are they willing to provide input, you said?
Sanjog Aul [00:50:04]:
Yes. Towards this. Because it may be technical, but in many cases, the architecture is independent of technology. It is basically the way it should be embedded, and we are not talking a software architecture only. We’re talking about the way IT will create value, the way it’s gonna automate workflow or whatever.
Jonathan Sees [00:50:21]:
The business has to have a say. There’s no doubt. It cannot just be IT. The business needs to drive this. It cannot be an IT-led project. The business unit needs to be the driver for any projects or initiatives that they are undertaking.
Sanjog Aul [00:50:49]:
So you and then they do drive it, but what we’ve seen is they just are primarily members of the steering committee who get reports versus being in the trenches, and if you’re not in the trenches without going technical, you can still be in the trenches seeing how it is happening. Do you see that as the mindset of business?
Jonathan Sees [00:51:09]:
That is a common mindset of the business where they are not understanding what the challenges and roadblocks and opportunities are at the trenches level. Oftentimes, decisions are made that have not taken everything into consideration.
Sanjog Aul [00:51:31]:
And do you think because of that, there is a finger pointing because when something
Jonathan Sees [00:51:35]:
goes wrong, they Absolutely. It does happen. I would say that it does happen in higher ed, and I’m sure it is common across all industries. Because of that, well, this didn’t work because IT did not inform us it wouldn’t work well. IT was never part of the decision it was never part of the discussion table.
Sanjog Aul [00:52:01]:
And so now let’s look at the talent side. So we did speak about the way things will be working, but now the IT people who you’re trying to embed in business, they didn’t sign up for it, or maybe some people did. The people who did not sign up, how do you get them to go and work in an environment which is almost like you’re a foreign worker, you’re a consultant going within the business, and you’re not hanging out with your geek friends?
Jonathan Sees [00:52:30]:
We have to try and, this is not simply a task that we assign our IT employees to do to work here and there, but it’s also an alignment to see if that person would be a good fit. It’s not just plugging an individual there, but making sure the person we are embedding has the appropriate mindset, skill set, and tools needed to be successful for themselves, for central IT, and for the business unit.
Sanjog Aul [00:53:16]:
One minute. Last question. What do you think the IT leaders have to change in themselves? Because we have seen in many cases, this change is to come because IT leaders themselves are of the command and control mindset. So their capabilities and their expectations, what should change so that we are able to get IT out of the back office, get embedded in the business, and give business and IT itself the kudos for creating the most value?
Jonathan Sees [00:53:46]:
IT leaders need to be open minded. We have moved from a control environment, and now we’re entering into a space where we want to partner with the businesses. We need to be open. We need to be listening. We need to understand how the business operates. We need to understand the businesses’ opportunities and challenges and make recommended solutions that can help the business accomplish what they do. Understanding the business and speaking their terms is going to be very critical.
Sanjog Aul [00:54:31]:
On behalf of the show and our listeners, thank you so much, Jonathan, for sharing your insights and thoughts and experiences on how you can pull IT out of the back office, embed in the business, and make business take ownership with IT being there to support, and as a result, we get the most value created for all parties involved.
Jonathan Sees [00:54:51]:
Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. Thank you for having me.
Sanjog Aul [00:54:54]:
Thank you again. Listeners, hope you enjoyed the conversation. I learned a lot. Please like us on Facebook. Search for CTN, CIO Talk Network, and please be sure to follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn. Thank you again for listening to this segment on CTN. This is Sanjog Aul, your talk show host. Till next week, take care and God bless.
