In the rapidly evolving tech landscape, organizations face the crucial task of attracting and retaining top tech talent amidst a hyper-competitive market. How can companies effectively differentiate their employer brand and entice sought-after professionals in the face of changing employee preferences and working modes? As remote and hybrid work models become more prevalent, how can organizations ensure the retention of tech talent, keeping them engaged, motivated, and fulfilled in this new paradigm? Moreover, what innovative approaches can be employed to foster a culture of continuous learning and upskilling, enabling employees to stay ahead in the rapidly changing tech domain and bridge the specialized skills gap?

Contributor

• • Faith Burn, Chief Information Officer, Eskom Holdings

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Transcript

Sanjog Aul:
Welcome to CTN. To learn more about the show, please visit CIO talknetwork.com and today’s topic is Cracking the Tech Talent Code. What I mean by that? So you see, we have a world that we are living in today where you want customer experience, which is becoming like the customers are becoming very demanding. Then you got organizations which are finding out ways to innovate and trying to stay ahead of the curve. So to that end, businesses are trying to figure out how do they figure out what to do with them, and with all of that, you need to have the technology talent which is supposed to help the business. They should be able to go ahead and get them working in a fashion so that they are motivated, they’re empowered, they are feeling that they should be helping with the larger vision.

Sanjog Aul:
So is that truly happening? And tech talent is a different breed. Like that’s what at least the rest of the world says it. They require different types of motivation, they require different types of ways and empowerment so that they can be fully productive, and then especially with so much innovation going on and their plate is more than spilling, are we able to truly keep the right people within the organization and also keep attracting the people who we need as our needs are changing? So what is happening? The reason we say cracking the tech talent code, because it truly is not an easy problem to solve, but we still want to attempt to give it a shot and say, what would it take? What’s that magic recipe that we could use? So to discuss this, we have Faith Burn, who’s the Chief Information Officer with Eskom Hall Holdings. Hey, Faith, how are you?

Faith Burn:
Hi, I’m well. How are you?

Sanjog Aul:
Very good. Thank you so much, and so Faith, like, I’ve tried to set the stage and you’ve lived with the tech talent. Right? So, and then you’ve also seen, , we went remote, then we went to hybrid, but now you’re coming back in person and we have seen how the tech talent behaved, how they got up to speed, or they had their own personal and professional challenges. So where we are heading now, which is coming back to business as usual, but frankly, it’ll never be same as what it was earlier pre pandemic. So what is it that you feel are the unique challenges which we are likely to encounter and continue to encounter when it comes to the type of the technology that we might have to use and leverage and also human adaptability at the same time?

Faith Byrne:
Yeah, so. So certainly I think a lot of the challenges of moving from hybrid back into the office and sort of semi hybrid again in our organization, we’re still on hybrid is really the psychological impact. I it was so funny. I was in a meeting, it was a networking meeting a couple of days ago and one of the people in the meeting attending was asked to comment on something they didn’t expect to comment, and the person’s reaction was, can I, can I unmute? Can I mute myself, please? So there’s definitely a different way of behavior when you’re at the back of your computer in your home to when you’re in the office. I think that from our perspective, our South African perspective, we have an economy that is struggling, and what that means is that the individuals, the tech individuals in my team have got heavier burdens to carry, financial burden, and of course we still recovering from the impact of COVID So there would have been people who have lost incomes and wasn’t able to retain to the level of or wasn’t at all able to retain to get back to having an income post Covid.

Faith Byrne:
In our communities, in our culture, what we have is we have the responsibility, most of our cultures have responsibility towards extended families, and so if members of your extended family have lost income, you immediately are contributing to that. So I have people in my team who have members who have lost incomes, and so therefore if they were seeing to, let’s say five or six members of the external or extended family, they are now seeing to two or three more members financially, and that impact is also then transferred into the place of. You guys would call it gas, we call it petrol for commuting to and from work. So where you were now during COVID and working at home, not having to spend that money and you could use to help these extended family members, you now have to also have enough money for your traveling costs. So certainly I think for us in South Africa, the impact is very much economically.

Faith Byrne:
But like I said, our organization has remained on hybrid.

Sanjog Aul:
So when we are talking about the working model, right, and to some extent when it started, all of this started in 2019 and then people had the shock of their life, but then they adjusted. Humans are very adaptable, right? No, no doubt about that, and we have come a long way in terms of what we felt was not even possible both for organizations and the workforce. They all understood that, what, there is a recipe to have people at least be productive and self leading or self managing as they go through the work and also deliver value. Yes, it had an impact on mental health to some extent and there were some other issues. So now that world has come Back to normal, but frankly, there is still a combination of people saying, I don’t want to come back full time, and then there are people who say, okay, what do I do by coming full time? Because there’s no incentive for me to come back because I still have to do zoom calls with some people who are remote, so why am I supposed to commute? Right? So those kind of things are definitely happening.

Sanjog Aul:
Now, keeping that logistics aside, point here is that whatever we are going to be doing today with our talent is also going to quite an extent have an impact on how competitive we are, how innovative we are, how we are able to stay relevant in the marketplace. So as the human side of the talent, people are of course looking at, but what are you doing to set realistic expectations for your management and also the same time for these people so that, that we are trying to reach normalcy, which is not. Which is the new normal, not the old normal. So what would be the constructs? What’s the new benchmark? What’s the new yardstick of how and what we are supposed to produce?

Faith Byrne:
Yeah, that’s a good question. I One of the rules or conditions we have in our organization for Hybrid is your performance. Your outputs must be at the levels that it’s expected, and so I don’t actually think we would ever go back to what was our normal. I think we’re already in our new normal. I also am a believer of the fact that just seeing somebody in the office is not necessarily ensuring that that person’s working. In fact, somebody just over lunch today was saying that they, they. They stay home when they want to get work done done, and when they want to socialize, they go into the office.

Faith Byrne:
So performance is a key thing, and in fact, it’s really important for me that, and I have a large team, so I rel that my managers produce throughout the team what I intend. So it’s important that the performance is measured, is managed, and that there’s connection. Technology must never replace connection. At the heart of it, we’re still people and there still needs to be connections. I’ll give you an example of what I mean when I say performance needs to be at the level. About 18 months or so ago, we were pretty much Hybrid.

Faith Byrne:
I think now we, , we have more of our team members coming into the office on a more regular basis, but at that point it was less often, and of course we had performance deliverables that key Performance deliverables that were clearly articulated where the team members would be engaging as to this is what we’re expecting for you to produce as an output and one particular team did not deliver in a specific area, and myself with my EXCOMM members, we took a decision that that team then needs to come back into the office, and until they can prove that they can deliver consistently, then only they can go back hybrid. Now, I know it sounds harsh and it sounds like a punishment, but the premise is if you are not able to work and produce what you’re contracted to do when you’re working off site, then come to the office, let’s see how we help you deliver what you need to and let’s see how you can do it consistently and let’s get you to a point where you can do it independently and then we can let you out again to do your hybrid work. So performance is very important and then of course, contactability in it. As , there are times that you need to be right there fixing, if it’s a desktop technician or laptop technician, fixing that device.

Faith Byrne:
And so contactability availability during office hours is extremely important, as is your deliverables now, and I expect of my managers to ensure that they have regular check ins with their teams and most recently those check ins. I’ve changed my check ins to be in person at least once a month and in person check ins and we do weekly check ins and this is me with my director, but an in person once a month and then I have an in person IT executive committee meeting also once a month. So in effect at minimum I want to see my direct reports twice in a month, and the other times we are online and when we are online, I insist on canvas because I do believe that verbal cues are important when you’re talking about outputs and performance and deliverables. You can very much see when somebody on the other end says to yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ve done that or yes, now I’ve got it. I know what you’re expecting. You can see whether there is really that understanding or not if you start to read the body language.

Faith Byrne:
It’s much more difficult on a camera, but I truly insist on cameras with all my meetings that are within my team. So performance I think is, I don’t think what the deliverables are has changed other than perhaps most of the new tech, and for me the cloud, our cloud strategy is very important. So embracing that, embracing digitalization. So that’s kind of the new aspects of what needs to be delivered, the how it is measured and making sure, I think a little more emphasis on, on staying close to your team so that you don’t find a surprise at the end of the task, but rather that you have a monitoring throughout the process.

Sanjog Aul:
Now, , we had set up an expectation for especially the technology people that, , we, we, we trust you. You seem to have the talent, and since we did not have a choice for them to come back to a place you say your technologist should not be a problem. Just go work where you can work, and when you’re trying to bring them back and then say go to hybrid. So that’s, that’s too much of change for them, and it’s not just the professional side, but also personal side, and to some extent in the last, like since 2019, we are already fourth year in here.

Sanjog Aul:
We learned a few lessons, I believe. Right, and we learned what would it take for us to have a person deliver their best, or at least seemingly the best based on wherever they are. So what learnings do you think you have been able to bring to this newer world that you’re trying to paint for the same tech talent who has gotten used to stay remote or hybrid but not come full time or even if people come full time, whatever you learn in terms of leading them or helping them become the most motivated and produce the best, could you apply here or tweak it to apply in this new setting? What’s that new recipe or the, , what I call is a tweaked recipe that you think is a golden recipe for us to crack this code?

Faith Byrne:
I think it’s flexibility. Really? And when I say flexibility, what I mean is pre Covid, I’m typically, like I said, I’m not somebody who needs to see you to think that you’re delivering because I would be managing you on your deliverables, so I’d pretty much know if you’re not delivering. Right, but I don’t need to have your warm body in front of you. Having said that, it’s so much easier to resolve issues in person. So when there’s something, a misunderstanding, et cetera, it’s easier to close the door, have a conversation, and 30 minutes later you’ve got it resolved. What I’ve learned is that I needed to be perhaps a little bit more flexible in my understanding. So if I’m calling a colleague during the day and at that point in time they are dropping off the kids and fetching the kids, I think I was less, I had less tolerance for that.

Faith Byrne:
Pre Covid. Post Covid, I don’t, I, , if it’s, if it’s something that can wait, we wait and have that conversation another time, same day, but another time. Because what I’ve seen from my team is that the work hours have become different. The work hours are flexible and therefore my understanding needs to be flexible. So they might stop and go drop off their kids during 12 and one will pick up the kids during 12 and one or one and two or whatever the time might be, but we they would have packed up at 5 or 5:30 or maybe 6 o’ clock in the evening to go home and make that commute in traffic for an hour. Now at 7 or 8 they’re doing a little piece of work because they’ve seen to the kids, they’ve had their supper and now we can do that piece of work in that deliverable for me. So therefore if I’m talking to somebody and it’s an odd time of the day, they’ve taken the kid to the doctor, they’ve done this.

Faith Byrne:
And what I am intentional about being flexible around that, especially knowing that they are delivering the outputs. Of course if it’s somebody that doesn’t deliver outputs, we need to have a conversation about, , how much of their work life balances is skewed towards life rather than work. Right. So that, that’s one of the learnings. The other thing that I encourage my teams to do and that I personally manage is and I don’t work at home as often anymore, mostly in the office, but was and I just shared it with somebody this morning was when I was working at home. I would get up in the morning as though I’m going to be commuting. I would go through my exercise routine, my quiet time routine.

Faith Byrne:
I would dress and put on makeup and the dressing wouldn’t be to the level of I’m going to an office meeting, but it would be decent enough for a camera and put on makeup, and that changed my whole psyche in terms of yes, I might. I could feel my body moving into I now that I’m at my work day, I think it’s very important, and boundaries become blurred when you are not intentionally shifting yourself. Especially if you’re in your workspace in your home space. If your home space is not shifted for you to have that those mental notes of now in that work environment. I think when those boundaries cross you, you’re you. You could have some challenges.

Faith Byrne:
And interestingly enough, I know you didn’t ask me this, I think you asked it earlier but I thought I should relate the story. There was during when we were pretty much mostly working hybrid and from home or mobile. I was in the process of doing some changes in, in, in my organization and, and we would have these 7am meetings which was also key learning because what I realized is we were just meeting any time of the day or night during COVID and that we needed to put some boundaries around, but one morning, one of the gentlemen in my team who was facilitating this particular discussion was trying to facilitate the discussion and you could hear this baby crying, , at the back, and I think that was one of the moments where it was, wait a minute, we are stepping into the space of that baby. So we that baby’s rightful place to be in his home, wanting to have his father’s attention at that moment and so creating not only the boundaries, but if you don’t even have the physical space, it’s really hard for some of my tech talent if they’ve got a small place that they live in, to separate these work, life, your work and your life, and yet it’s so important that you are working. Hybrid.

Faith Byrne:
Another lady I shared with me that she comes into work every day because she simply doesn’t have the space to have that concentrated effort on work in her home. It’s too small, too many people in it, so she can’t concentrate or deliver to her best, the best of her ability, but in a survey that we did with my team, I wanted to just check how far, how well the Hybrid is working. Most of my team members, and most was about 89% of them felt that their productivity had increased while working at home, and that’s only because they were able to be flexible with their timing. So started fix while the children are getting ready and then go and do the children job portion and all of that and basically just, , managing the time around it, but also that they, , that they didn’t have to check or make the great check to a, to an office, which means they didn’t spend an hour, an hour and a half, or sometimes two hours in traffic trying to get to the office, and so they just felt that overall their productivity was higher because their monthly expense were reduced and travel costs and childcare was reduced.

Faith Byrne:
They found that they were less stressed about keeping it all together and they could then focus more and be more positive and more passionate about their work. So quite an interesting situation.

Sanjog Aul:
Now one is that of course, we deal with, the different changes that have come about, but also at the same time we want to take care of the fact that it and of course working closely with hr, we have to bring some diverse talent and also we have to give them a voice, which was of course, whether pre pandemic or even today, that was true. So looking at the changes that happened and looking at organizations, at least on an average basis, became more empathetic, more accommodating, and also learned the value of bringing people with diverse background, not just ethnic diversity, but gender and other ways people can bring diversity, and also started listening to them more. So some of that happened, but was this formalized? Was it put in form of policies and processes which were created collaboratively between the technology and HR leaders? What has been tweaked and what needs to be tweaked so that they feel, and that is why the reason I’m saying is because if they feel that, okay, we have diversity and we have a voice, that’s what gives them a sense of empowerment, and that’s also a recipe for good retention, but what has been learned and what has been incorporated in the policies and in the other ways of work?

Faith Byrne:
So our organization’s got a huge focus on, on diversity and inclusion, and they’ve got specific programs in our country. August 9th is Women’s Day, and we pretty much in our organization celebrate most of August in terms of women, and that’s rolled out to all the different divisions and functions. So we would have an overall women interact, but we’d also in the conference, but we’d also have those in our different departments. So we were lucky enough that we had really great diversity and inclusion policies and practices prior to Covid, but I hear what you’re saying in terms of these tech and these listening. It’s also the other aspect, I think there’s such well defined processes in most organizations around us.

Faith Byrne:
Things like women, people living with disabilities, but one of the aspects is age. Is the millennial, but also what about those people who are older and might not be listened to because they are deemed to be almost on retirement? So we haven’t specifically changed any policies around it, but for example, we had some principles on hybrid, like I mentioned earlier, and what I did within my IT organization is I applied those principles, but then applied a checkpoint and said, okay, so we’ve applied the principles for an X amount of time. Let us now just take a moment to see how effective these principles are and whether we should tweak them, and that’s when we had conversations and surveys with our team.

Faith Byrne:
Not conversations with mostly surveys with the team to find out how has this worked, what would work better. The other thing that I’ve also been intentional about is engagements and it’s mostly hybrid engagements, but I because it’s hybrid, I am personally somebody that loves human contact and into human interaction and seeing people face to face. So whenever I have those communication sessions it would be those who can come to the office and those who can’t would be on the link, but it is in those sessions that we also have conversations and hear from them and adapt to what we can. At some point I wanted to adapt my principles around how we conduct hybrid and when after we’ve done the survey and we got the survey results and I heard from the team, I kept the principles out there because the feedback was that positive about these principles work for us, but always reminding them that performance is important and that we need to always drive outputs and where there are instances where output is not where it should be, those principles are no longer valid. So that’s kind of the listening,

Faith Byrne:
and then of course we do. We’ve got an innovation path that we’ve tried that we put together both in my team and then also cross functionally for technical ideas. Not necessarily the working from home type of discipline, but go ahead.

Sanjog Aul:
Yeah. So when it to that end, I mean like you gave some good ways you’ve tried to incorporate but one is the policy part, but other is the softer side of them feeling that we care. Which means offering them mentoring, coaching and other form of support for them to feel that they. You have your, you have their back, and especially a lot of this mentoring because I’m sure you had and I even I have mentored people and I could do that remotely, but then there would be some people who are coming in person who are in close vicinity and they could get perhaps seemingly better support versus people who are remote, and some people are not coming because they have a reason for.

Sanjog Aul:
For them not being able to come to the office or in person. How do you make sure that the level of support that you having their back, that feeling is not undermined in any way. If a person is unable to come to the office compared to the person who can.

Faith Byrne:
So it’s really ensuring that my not written down policy, but an intention that I drive is relationship building. So what’s really important for me is accessibility and relationship building. So I need to be as accessible as possible to those people who reported to me directly. When I’m getting phone calls from them, text messages, et cetera. I need, it needs to not be a difficult exercise for them to reach me, and that is also what I expect from those in my team who manage people because I think that when you distance, when you’re not in the physical space and you add challenges to accessibility that would make a person feel extremely disconnected. So accessibility is really important, and then just in our organization we have to, and we’re really pleased to have a, to live in a country where we have a labor relations act that really looks after the employee as well,

Faith Byrne:
and so we have to apply consistent rules in terms of how we engage, and we also have mentorship programs, we have coaching programs that has been made available, and what our HR executive has done is she has reminded us because what was interesting, , was that we forgot the programs that are accessible to us because it somehow it’s almost like because we at home, maybe those programs don’t exist anymore, and so what our HR exec has done and she’s gone out of a way to make sure that she reminds us that these are still accessible, and even if you’re sitting at home, but you signed up for coaching and mentoring, you could have that session and you can have that session online with your video on and that is as close as you can get to it, and you won’t get treated any differently to the person who actually comes out to the office, and in fact, a lot of it actually does happen on teams. Even if it’s somebody that commutes to the office often, many times the coaches are from different areas,

Faith Byrne:
and so that gives us also access to a wide range of coaches, which means that they’re accessible, but accessibility is key, and having a relationship with your team and understanding the different individuals in your team is the other key aspect to make sure that people have that you have a good understanding without indulging in somebody’s privacy, but a good understanding on what framework a person operates in, what are the challenges, what are their personal challenges so that you’re not interesting, that somebody comes to the office with physically they can’t, but that you’re finding other ways, like having your camera on to engage and to see each other.

Sanjog Aul:
Now with your mentoring approach, right, and you even included coaching, which is great. So because that becomes more structured versus a water cooler conversation with someone you trust. So definitely that would help them, and we have to continue that whole process. Now we have seen the software side. You’ve told that you’ve tried a lot of different things to get them to feel the best.

Sanjog Aul:
Now when it comes to the actual delivery, because it’s a contract and they are employees, they’re supposed to deliver something that’s a reality, which means the performance needs to be measured, and we have to continue to make sure that it keeps improving. Right, but with the different ways we have dealt with people, we were earlier empathetic and I think we also became a little more lenient because we felt that’s a time of disruption. We can’t expect them to do same thing as pre pandemic. What would you say is or should be, not is, but should be the newer benchmarks for performance metrics, which keeps those things that they have gone through, the changes that have happened in their lives, in their working and in the way we dealt with them and what businesses are expected to do with their workforce. So that at the end of allows the tech talent to feel rewarded, feel recognized, feel empowered, feel supported, and yet they truly understand that they are there to deliver value for the business. That’s why this contract exists.

Faith Byrne:
Yeah. So in our organization, it’s absolutely important for us to deliver. It’s absolutely important for us to bring about the changes that are required. We have much aged infrastructure. We have a number of are really critical projects that need to be implemented, in my view. So yes, to your point, the softer side, the empathy, the understanding, the being accessible, the ensuring that there’s mentoring, coaching that that should be there. What cannot be compromised is output, and for me, it starts with clearly articulating to my team why this is important.

Faith Byrne:
We, for example, are doing apparently a project on improving how we manage our inventory and articulating why that’s important and how this impacts on the bottom line is very critical for me. So we start with a clear articulation of these are my performance expectations. This is what I’m expecting. Also during this process, talking about whether you’re in hybrid or not as an IT team, when you’re delivering a project, it is also important to touch and feel the area that you’re delivering. So for example, I expect my team to go to our power stations because this project that I’m using as an example will be impacting on our power stations and how they manage the inventory. So I have full expectation and I articulated that and they delivered on that. A full expectation that they go on site, that they visibly inspect and that they visibly are the support to that power station. So ensuring that there’s absolute clarity on expectation, giving your employee that opportunity to ask questions at the time of engaging and defining those expectations for the year ahead is critical.

Faith Byrne:
Then in my view, obviously doing your normal performance reviews, and in our case, I think it’s once a quarter or something like that, you’re doing your normal standard performance review as per the HR policies and procedures. That’s great, but what I’m a firm believer in is providing feedback as and when it happens. I don’t believe in an employee waiting until it’s performance review time and now hearing that they haven’t delivered or waiting until it’s performance review time and now hearing that they delivered a good job. The minute we, like I say, catch somebody doing something good, we acknowledge it, we recognize it and we celebrate it. The minute we see something’s derailing a little, we engage, find out where we can provide more support, and if it’s a mere fact of there needs to be some performance management done with the individual, then that’s what needs to happen, but of course, you start with do you need support? Where do you need the support? And let’s see how we can provide that support.

Faith Byrne:
So you can, so you can provide the outputs, but in no way do we compromise outputs. We cannot afford it, not for our organization and I don’t think any other organization can really afford it, especially post Covid. I think it’s so much time to do business.

Sanjog Aul:
Post Covid, if you were to look at whatever we have done so far and look at what is likely to come, frankly, after Pandemic, I don’t think so. Any one of us can fairly say we have a crystal ball, right? But still, in the seemingly near future, what do you think with respect to the tech talent that we need to retain, attract, nurture, what are the best opportunities on the horizon and what are the challenges so we can better prepare the best opportunities?

Faith Byrne:
I mean, think about it, right? Last year this time we didn’t know about ChatGPT. Yeah, these ChatGPT, there’s Metaverse, this growth and movement in the artificial intelligence space in the four hour tools, and it’s changing at such a fast pace that it’s almost. You feel like you’re running, but you’re always running a little bit behind, and so for me, the opportunities are in leveraging that to the best of my ability, in reskilling people, in creating efficient ways of doing business whilst remaining well governed. So not giving your IP away like some organization accidentally did, but using these newfound tools to find quicker, more efficient ways of doing what needs to get done, but also freeing you up for analytical thinking. I think the challenge is in how do you keep up with the pace of technology and how do you prepare for what the new technology needs to come, and therefore I think what we need to think about is how we recruit, what type of people we recruit.

Faith Byrne:
So for Me, it’s no longer on whether you can do network administration or Java or ABAP programming. It no longer specifically. I mean obviously those skills are needed and required, but the focus for me, and where we need to shift how we recruit is we do need to think about people who are open to solving complex problems, who are analytical and who are open to change and to learning. So what’s going to be key for me the next few years is an openness to learn and an ability to remain grounded even when it feels like things are out of control. Because it can start to feel like things are out of control when the pace is so fast, but it’s to remain grounded and leave yourself open for learning. I think those are the key ways that we can manage the challenges of this fast paced technology changes. Added to that, we’ve got some world socio political economical challenges.

Faith Byrne:
We have wars. I mean it’s just interesting. We’ve had wars since in the last few years we’ve had a pandemic, we’ve got wars, we’ve got changes in technology that are so exponential and so different to what we know it to be, and as individuals it’s easy to close yourself off and say all I know is to do SQL or all I know is to manage a network, but to rather leave yourself open to possibilities of I could actually do what I’m doing a little bit more efficiently if I use the tools, but let me learn how to do it and let me leave myself open to learning to do it and let me be critical in my thinking and let me be analytical and let me always keep my focus on how would this improve our organization? How would this improve our bottom line.

Sanjog Aul:
On behalf of this show, thank you so much Faith for sharing your insights about how organizations can lear learn from what has happened in the last few years, look at what’s on the horizon and have this seemingly tough nut to crack which is the tech talent attraction attracting them, retaining them and nurturing them and make some good progress, but thank you so much again your points were spot on.

Faith Byrne:
Thank you very much.

Sanjog Aul:
And listeners, please connect with us on social media and subscribe to us to our podcast wherever you find them. They’re all on major channels. So once again thank you for listening to CTN. This is your host Sanjog Aul till next week take care and God bless.