• • Daniel Blanchard, Chief Technology Officer, IHG Hotels & Resorts

Transcript (Assembling Business and IT Capabilities like a LEGO® Puzzle)

Advertisement: Welcome to CTN CIO talk network with your host Sanjog Aul, all comments, views, and opinions expressed on this show are strictly those of the host guests and callers. Now here’s Sanjog Aul.

Sanjog: Hello, and welcome to CTN, to learn more about the show, please visit www.ciotalknetwork.com, now today’s topic, a rather interesting one Assembling Business And IT Capabilities like a Lego puzzle, what do I mean by that? So imagine this, what if you could assemble your organization like Lego puzzles, each project, rather each product or each service as a business block, which can then be coupled with a compatible IT block looks like futuristic approach to how business could be done and moreover, if you could do it in a way that you could pick up any of those blocks, you could either build it, buy it, lease it, and eventually assemble them together to achieve a very lean and an on-demand which you can use to scale and extend your business without compromising the quality of your operations and the customer experience you deliver. Is this even possible? And if yes, what would it take to build such capability? So to discuss this, we have Danielle that’s, Dan Blanchard, Senior Vice President, and Chief Technology Officer with Intercontinental Hotels Group.

Hey Dan, how are you?

Daniel: I’m doing well. Thank you, good to talk to you today.

Sanjog: Great! A very fascinating topic, so the first question comes to my mind is while it’s cool, right? If you could make the whole business function to become you know, be split into business blocks, and then you could have them all run individually or as a group, like a couple of blocks, like the way we have started doing with IT quite a bit lately. Business is not used to doing it, they by design want to stay all integrated and streamlined at all times with everything very tightly coupled, is business even ready to do to accept this model, or even allow anyone to think in that direction and if yes, what would it take to build a business case for something like?

Daniel: Sure, well so first of all, thanks for having me very much appreciate the opportunity to share our journey here, want to make a point you know this, I’ve learned one thing in the time I’ve worked in IT and in the corporate world, is that, this is a team sport and so, although, you know, I’m representing what we’re doing here at IHG, it is absolutely a team effort and the better part of the organization for the better part of a year has been working with to build this capability and so I’ll represent this to the best of my ability, but let me take your question, one of the keys to this is you know, probably just like any other organization, no organization is perfectly ready or for a major change like this. It’s always a bit of a leap of faith, but if you start looking at the chain challenges that you have from a business perspective and the weaknesses of your model and you start getting discontented with how that is going, then you might want, you know you’ll look for another way to do it and so one of the benefits at IHG is we had a solid foundation, so solid collaboration capabilities,good teamwork, strong leaders and so building on that, we looked at some of the pain points that we were experiencing and those pain points sort of created a compelling argument that builds on this sort of business case question that you’ve just asked which is, you know, how much time are you spending on administrative work? In other words, coordinating, meeting, you know, decision rights, all of those kinds of things and then relate that to how much time you’re actually spending, you know, changing the business or building capability and for many organizations that I’ve been involved with that administrative work tends to create you know, a pretty compelling a business case. So you start spending lots of money, I mean, you could look at it just from a financial perspective, but it also creates a delay, so you miss business opportunities, you take too much time you know, in debates about decision-making and coordinating across the organization you know, assigning multiple project managers for the same, same effort, those kinds of things and so when you start seeing those miss business opportunities and you see when you do your, you know, your post-project reviews, you say that you’re spending a lot of time on the administrative side of the project and less time on the actual change part of the project, then it creates a compelling sense of urgency to make a change.

Sanjog: Now, with that said you perhaps somehow get business to buy on it, it’s not something which traditionally any business has subscribed to and, or maybe even have attempted, there must be something where we take a step back, rethink and, and look around and see, are we even ready?So, is there some sort of a readiness check or an assessment you would recommend or areas looking under the hood, type of exercise you would recommend before someone goes with something as ambitious, because yeah, you could start another business in parallel, but that would not be costs, that will be cost prohibitive, that means you have to work on your current business and you cannot go back. So you cannot mess around when you’re starting out and that, so you need this proactive thinking and an assessment for readiness. What would that look like?

Daniel: Exactly, I mean, this isn’t for the fainthearted, right? So this is an organ, this is the change but you have to be pretty confident with your capabilities in the first place, you have to have good solid guidelines you know, architecture standards, again, some of the leadership and engagement, those kinds of things, those framework model need to be, you know, in place for things like quality control that kind of work, because what you’re going to be doing is sort of distributing a lot of that framework and a lot of that governance. So it’s got to be pretty good to begin with, you know, solid agile methodologies, consistent tools, skill sets, those kinds of things and so you kind of have to already have that under your belt in order to make this kind of a leap, because you’re going to need that as you distribute the capability, but one thing that I would say and this is absolutely a critical element and that is you know, you have to have really engaged leaders on the business side who have accountability for the results, the results that are driven from a business perspective and I’m not talking about results, like, you know, did you meet the change on time or did you deliver, I’m talking about the business results. So whether it’s, you know, increase revenue or reduce costs or those kinds of business related results, because at the end of the day you’re going to be a very agile team, you’re going to be very focused on making decisions and having an impact on those results, and so you really can’t have a lot of, if you will translation between the teams that you’re setting up and making an impact because you’ll end up going down the wrong road. So, having a mature organization is critical and then absolutely positively having engaged, active results oriented business leaders is a key to success.

Sanjog: Now, when you mentioned, you know, things from a readiness perspective becoming agile, and then you mentioned the business leaders be very engaged, so if I were to give a benefit of doubt, most of the organizations who would even try coming close to attempting it, they would be, I would say sizeable and are people with relatively mature leadership, hopefully they’re engaged, so I’ll just want to say that benefit of doubt, but one thing about that whole maturity level of saying, oh, we are agile or we have done ABC, I personally have spoken to many people, I’m sure you have too, who say, yeah, we are agile but when you look closely, we are hybrid agile and then you look very closely, they are not agile So would you say that if you were to come outside in, into an organization and say, are you agile, are you all people engaged? And the other specific nuances that you would expect, what should be that standard or rather a threshold standard that people must meet versus it becoming subjective because the stakes are pretty  high.

Daniel: Yeah, so I think you’ve got a good point and you know, no one is perfectly agile, no one perfectly fits into these models and so I’m not suggesting you have to be, you know, capability maturity model five on this, or perfect in these ways but you do have to have the framework because again, you know there’s a level of trust that you’re distributing across the organization, so that trust to make sure that you’re staying consistent with standards, with architectures staying consistent, with development, frameworks, and quality control processes ,so you know, I think it’s more the spirit of it than it is the technical details of agile that is necessary, but again you know, leaders make this successful or leaders make these things fail and having those frameworks and having that, if you will supporting infrastructure is the key.

Sanjog: When we are looking at, let’s go into the mode that yes, a company has the readiness, they want to move forward and since you, I’m assuming you’re doing some of this in your organization, when you’re trying to take a business deconstructed and convert that into integration ready I assume those building blocks, right? And integration from all different directions with variability assigned like already allocated to it that say, this block could connect to this, but if anything, new comes, it should have minimal issue in making this block ready to connect with something else, which it was not originally planned for, how would anyone build into a business function, which is part analog path, part digital nowadays, such flexibility, such integration readiness, and such predictability that once we get into this modular mode, you cannot go back so that means these things will function. Take a moment to think, what would you like to share as stories, anecdotes, examples, and your journey in trying to deconstruct your business when you started your journey, please stay tuned listeners, when we come back, we’ll listen to Dan on how he made it possible.

Sanjog: Welcome back, so Dan modularizing each business function into manageable blocks of capabilities which can predictably connect with each other, integrate with each other, have the flexibility to be tweaked as the business shifts, that is truly futuristic, something everyone would be aspiring for and you’re already doing it, tell us more.

Daniel:  Yeah, so it is pretty exciting, it one of the things I just caveat, there’s no perfect model and in fact, I mean, because we are, you know, large organizations, there’s obviously a poorest relationship between the different business units and so there’s lots of interactions that still go on but one of the things that was key for us to determine how to break these organizations into these segments was to review the work that we’ve done in the past and so you start looking at things like your previous projects, where did they fail? Where were the miscommunications or in some cases, where did you have to add resources? Add coordinated resources, add project managers to overcome the borders of the legacy organization and so we looked at those experiences and said you know, rather than having those borders and loading up with that administrative work, let’s just integrate them. Let’s keep them in one organization with clear accountability for result and eliminate that inefficiency across those teams and so that has been a very, if you will key decision process for us to go with this, but I will also indicate, I mean, we didn’t have it, right?  In fact, just recently we made some additional changes where we saw some pieces of the environment that we’re more aligned to and we’ve built our model you know, across business units, whether it’s guest facing or,hotel facing, we’ve identified some areas that were better aligned with other decisions associated with hotel facing and so we’ve made those changes. So you have to keep even the organization flexible to those kinds of things but yeah, I mean the key there is to review your mission work and look for those inefficiencies and then put those things together, so you can eliminate them.

Sanjog: Any learnings along the way, anything that you feel when you got started to where you are, I’m sure you look hindsight is 2020, what happened? What were the learnings? Where were the struggles? How did you get over them?

Daniel: Yeah, I mean, it takes, you know, I mentioned right at the start, this is a team sport and you know, you’ve got to have great leaders, you got to have folks who are willing to adapt, who are willing to adjust and you look at the organization, you can have a lot of focus on ego and organization building because frankly you know, we’re moving a lot of cheese around to use that analogy and so the lesson here and the folks who have been successful in going through this has been you know, approach to it in that way  very focused on making sure that we build the kind of  high productivity organization, high function organization and frankly you know, being willing to change, to adjust.

Sanjog: So when you are looking at IT capabilities, and frankly, it seems like at least on the surface that splitting your IT capability into reusable blocks, like we do with a software code, should be easy but it seems like there are so many things that we change on a regular basis in terms of the platforms, tools, processes, even within IT to support business, how would you make something where it’s a moving target and apply it and get to a point where whatever blocks you originally created, you don’t have to keep finding or building or lazing more Lego blocks just to keep up, especially in context of IT.

Daniel: Yeah, that was at least for me personally, that seemed like a pretty daunting task to break this down in a way that would work but what I found is you know it’s not so difficult and in fact, most organizations they’re already relatively built in this model. We definitely have some division between the change the business work that we do and the run the business work that we do. But beyond that, it really hasn’t been that challenging, what has been a key is to automate, now one of the, well, we’ve had for many years a focus on automation because it makes sense and probably the entire industry has been focused in this space but, in this model again, with all of the standards and reference architectures and tools it gives you the ability to automate even more and so an example of that is the work we’re doing with our cloud acceleration team and a big shout out to that team, they’re doing some great work for us, but the CAT team, cloud acceleration team has really sort of instantiated our generation two gen2 cloud environment. We’ve been a largely cloud environment for quite a while that cloud environment has largely been internal filed.

The new environment is a fully hybrid cloud and is fully automated and so all of those building blocks that you mentioned within the IT organization and the inefficiencies between those building blocks, what you’re talking about servers or network or platform or application or more security, all of those building blocks between those gaps between those sort of go away, if you use the standards that you have and then full automation and so that team has done some really extraordinary work where we’re literally we’d eliminated pretty much, you know, all of that inefficiency and so you know, we’re able, now many organizations are as well, but we’re able now to generate an environment all the way up to, and including the application, literally in a couple of minutes and we can do that on any of the platforms that we want to run on and so what I would say about IT capability I do think there’s a differentiation between run the business and change the business but beyond that, I wouldn’t focus so much on the org design, I’d focus on the automation and get that running well across your platform and you’ll eliminate those inefficiencies that would throw a monkey wrench into this whole transition.

Sanjog: So one is the scalability as you mentioned, automation could help remove the drudgery, the human error and other efficiency could be gained. The issue comes in the variability that you might have a need of the hour from the business, which could also change and then, you know, in this digital world, you know, you walk, you know, in a hallway nowadays you are walking in a virtual hallway, but those conversations become expectation, and then you run on that one and then you got the standard keeping the lights on stuff for IT and then the third is the blue sky version of innovation. You’ve got these three flavours floating around at any given time and then you’re saying on top of it, I want to abstract and build it into a business blocks so anything you gave I’ll assemble in two minutes and give it to you, but not literally two minutes, but you understand what I’m saying?

Daniel: Yeah, I mean, but remember what you know, we’ve got brilliant people across the industry and IT and by automating a lot of these administrative actions those folks then can spend their time if you will, on the tip of the spear where those innovations are really happening working with the platform partners, the business partners where they need new capability and so there absolutely is always going to be change in the environment, but by automating the legacy, the administrative, the logistics of the basics of this we have a lot more time to spend on that creativity side and so, that’s what we’re experiencing and so that’s, why I think automation is so critical.

Sanjog: So Dan, a simple, fundamental question about your proposition here, right? What you are proposing, one is to look at it as a purist and say, once I build these building blocks, I don’t have to look at it again, second is to look at it from a pragmatic standpoint that at the end of it, it is partly an efficiency play, partly building some breathing room space for people to spend time where they need to spend time. Are you proposing for an organization to embrace this as a way forward or yet another creative solution to creating breathing room, so their smartest people do the smartest work?

Daniel: Yeah, so I mean, I think everyone has a lot to contribute so just that I Gress a bit, we have some great business partners who handle a lot of the transaction work and so the majority of the folks that we’re freeing up through this automation are, the engineers, they are the architect and we’re able to free them up to do this creative work and so I’m not sure that, you know, any organization is much different than that but by creating that space, these folks are able to get closer with the customers. We’ve embedded all of our architects with our business users so they’re part of those teams, we have given them if you will be authority to go and make the decisions that they need to make and to you know, put together solutions that meet the business need and when they don’t have solutions or if you will standards that can solve those business problems then they have a collaboration process to get help with that and to be creative and solve those problems. So, I’m not sure it’s a situation that there’s any real downside to this, it’s just by freeing them up and embedding them with those business users they are able to be more creative.

Sanjog: Let’s take a quick break listener, we’ll be right back and then Dan when we come back, let’s talk about the snapshot, if you will, or is there a way we take a snapshot of how the business runs today, then put in a dash off that vision we have or where it will be in one to two years, three years, and take that as a baseline for us to start this journey and we take regular snapshot to see if these blocks that we created, are they still relevant? Are they still pluggable the way we want them to? And correct course, how does someone create a, what I call as an overarching governance? Does something like this, please stay tuned listeners we will be right back.

Sanjog: Welcome back, so Dan, when we get started we need to have a snapshot before we say let’s disassemble our business or deconstruct our business and IT into building blocks. Well, what does that snapshot look like? Just looking at today too myopic , looking three years from now not sure what’s going to happen in three years, so what’s a good mid-point, which will be reasonable for us to use as a baseline and once you’ve taken the baseline, deconstructed the business, built your business and IT blocks, how do you make sure you keep checking the deviations from the baseline as the real world unfolds itself? And how relevant are the blocks stain? What would that governance look like?

Daniel: Yeah, sure, I mean, I think you know as in business world and in IT you know, the only constant is change and so the positive thing about this model is that it is quite adaptable and so we can move things around, in fact, we’ve already done that when we encountered some issues, as I said, between the guest organization and the hotel organization and we’re continuing to do that. In fact, we’re doing annual planning now and as we’re looking out for the next three years specifically focused on what we’re going to do in 2022, we’re taking those sort of measurements. Are we in the right model? Now, we haven’t other than the one that I just mentioned, we haven’t made any changes but on an ongoing basis, we have to do that, that kind of health check. One of the good things is as you might imagine, the folks who are excited about this model are change agents and so the people I’m working with, the leaders I’m working with there isn’t a lot of resistance to change and so people are excited about being able to create a high performing organization and if we see something that goes off the rails, then you know, we’re going to change it and because of the culture is built to support that not a big deal, now most likely those changes will happen through the annual planning process. There may be some exceptions to that but with you know, with the planning if you will pace and schedule doing annual plans, I’m guessing that most of the time that we’ll have an opportunity to make adjustments, we’ll be during  doing that annual planning review but again I could be wrong on that, right now that’s kind of the way I think that would get triggered.

Sanjog: So interesting example of someone doing this deconstruction and assembling using a building block and this is live business, it’s not sitting in a lab somewhere, it’s real business, because if you are to test before you go full throttle, you still have to test and you have to test on real business, whether it works or not, in IT yes you can spin off a virtual server and do it but that’s not a, I believe at least to my knowledge, there is no such possibility of doing that at the business level. How on earth would someone test a deconstructed and then reconstructed block-based business and IT working together, singing kumbaya, and it is a smooth sailing boat, if you will.

Daniel: Yeah, that’s a good question and so obviously, as I said before, there is a leap of faith that has to go on in this space, but there were some tests that were used in the run-up to the org change that we made, a good example is a tool that we built for our properties and what we did was we sort of looked for, looked for areas of pain, not necessarily the small ones, right? Because if you make a change in a small area, nobody reads, not very impactful note, no real notice, but also not in the biggest item in the world, because in the biggest area you probably have too much risk associated with a new model there, so in the middle somewhere where it’s where there is a pain point to start building this kind of model and we created this capability again before the actual organization change that was sort of in spirit operating in this way and it was to support our hotels and frankly the folks running the hotels who need to be able to use a simple interface to do that work that they do, one that can be easily trained on, easily used is intuitive and those kinds of things and so that organization was sort of created as a small, if you will test case. I don’t think we thought of it that way at the time, but it was created in this sort of updated or new model to determine whether we could run this as an, in this sort of modularized product-based world and this is the concerto team they did some great work for IHG and created a very effective tool. This tool is just like the organization model that we mentioned, it’s quite modular, we can plug and play different interfaces or different capabilities behind that interface and have a very limited touch or limited retraining necessary for the users and so it was a good test case to determine whether this kind of a model would work. Obviously it did work and we moved on, but again, you know, the test case that I would suggest isn’t going to be that small one that really has no impact because no one’s going to really notice that, it also is sent to one that is, you know, mission critical capability that could you know, failure could risk the company from a business perspective. So somewhere in the middle of building a test case is what I would recommend to them, that’s what was done. That was started before I joined IHG, but was done extremely well.

Sanjog: Any tough, but fair questions were posed, which you had trouble answering from your own team and your management and the reportees, so what did they pose? And if they were tough, but fair questions, how did it in fact, what are you doing to answer those questions? And if they posed a situation and on use case, which you’re still trying to crack, what would be an example of that?

Daniel: Yeah, I mean absolutely the cultural implication of this is always a big deal and, you know, when you think about the people, tech and process three pillars of IT, the people part becomes so critical and, you know, a tough question is, Hey, we are a good agile shop, we have good standards, we’re doing this well,  we’re not one of those, you know, we’re not this isn’t our rebuild necessary organization and yet work and we’re making this change to do something that we think is going to make a positive impact but you know the reality is, when we want to create the best organization and the best capabilities for our constituents and the company if you start talking about what the world can be like, right?  When we have an environment that works this way, when we don’t have these administrative burdens, when we don’t have these delay factors in our projects and we’re directly contributing to the mission of the company, people start getting excited and so that question about, why do we need to change? I’m kind of comfortable the way I am, I know we’re doing a good job why don’t we have to change, well by communicating that vision, communicating that mission and where we can go as an organization and getting people on board that’s really what has the way you answer that, and as we start seeing these results, you start celebrating those results and you start really emphasizing the fact that we are a much more agile and efficient and capable organization and people like being part of a winning team and so that’s a pretty compelling motivation for people to get behind it. But it is tough and it requires a lot of communication and it requires a lot of leadership and messaging and making sure people understand why you’re doing it because like I said, I mean, you can’t do this if you don’t have all of those solid foundations and you know, a tough question is why change when we’re already pretty good?

Sanjog: So we already spoke about the people and some of the ones are the vocal ones, right?  Who came up and asked you the tough, but fair questions, then there are others who you expect to adopt, but they could be passive aggressive or passive, or no, I don’t want to do this, so, you cannot root for something totally you know, star Trek version of business, because some people in the Ivory tower or some people who are very excited thinking about it to directly translate into a wholehearted adoption, how did you tackle it? How are you tackling it today? Cause you’re not done yet.

Daniel: Yeah, so I mean, a part of it is just making sure that the leaders are on board and when I say leaders, I don’t mean just the folks who have the titles, I’m talking about the informal leaders, the people who are respected across the industry, across the organization and so in some cases, you know, you do the same thing that you do is any leaders who you get them onto the team, you give them accountabilities and you help them be successful and so a big part of it is making sure that they understand why we’re doing this, what the, future looks like and then, you know, recruit them, get them, on board, get them engaged and get them working in this direction and then nothing shows, nothing changes culture but then more than success and so when you start seeing productivity, when you start seeing things happen in a more efficient and effective way, eliminating those pain points, eliminating those endless meetings, trying to convince multiple people to go in a particular direction when there, you know, when I said, like I said before, when there are organizational borders, that don’t make a lot of sense and so when people start seeing those problems go away, they get behind it and I think that’s the way to do it and you know you’re never going to win everybody over but by doing it in a thoughtful way, like I mentioned you get sort of a groundswell and you get the support and then you move on.

Sanjog: Let’s take a quick break listener, we’ll be right back and then let’s talk security, privacy. Governance, you know, the GRC, people like those will frown at it because now you have modularized it, you say, we want to be able to assemble anything any time and they are the guardians of keeping the company safe, not be in newspapers and news period and prevent any sort of risk. What’s a good, and not as good side of going the direction you’re suggesting and how does any company who wants to go in this direction can make security, privacy, those type of considerations built in the very DNA of each of these blocks, so when you do assemble, that’s a  non-issue. Let’s explore when we come back, please stay tuned.

Sanjog: Risk, Security, Privacy, these people may not like the idea, not always the whole notion of deconstructing blocks, assemble at free will, move at a hundred miles an hour and not knowing what’s connecting to who, where’s the data going? Where’s the intellectual property going? How are the crown jewels morphing? Total chaos can happen, I’m not saying it has happened, can happen and that’s how they think. How do you ally their fears and doubts and uncertainties in this regard? How do you take them along?

Daniel: Yeah, sure I mean this is a challenge I mean, I would, absolutely account this as one of the harder jobs as you move into this kind of a model, it’s similar to the run the business side of things, change versus running the business and so the job that the CSO and that whole team does a great job, but they have to rely on those processes and so when I mentioned that, you know, you have to be a relatively mature organization to do this, you have to have those frameworks, they have to know that, you know, we have, for example, we have a collaboration forum for all initiation of all projects, they have to know that collaboration forum is being used they can’t get something coming out of left field because they won’t have the opportunity to get in front of it and then one of two things happens either we have to compromise on those security principles or we have to delay and so like I said, those processes that you have become even more important in this model and so and that happens for the security team, it happens for the run the business operation infrastructure and operation team, all of those sort of blocking and tackling responsibilities and organizations, they have to count on that solid governance, they have to count on people following those rules because there’s just no other way for them to get their work done. So it is absolutely a challenge lots of things come, I guess the benefit is, you know, when you have a good solid set of standards most of the things that come down the pipe can be handled with an existing solution but it does require a lot of work on those parts to keep up with the pace of change that this kind of program of model creates. But, but yeah, if you have the governance processes, that’s the key to mitigating that additional workload and that additional risk.

Sanjog: One last, but most important piece is the very leadership, right? The DNA off, as you’ve mentioned, you want people who are very charged up and engaged that a human, any human can be if they are really liking, what’s going to happen. But here you are leader who has to foster that mind-set and among people and even among in yourself, you have to retrain your brain because this is a one of a kind org structure or way of running an org and getting everyone to come and rally the troops become that pied Piper. What would you do as a leader yourself? And what would you expect your CEO and other CXOs to do? And so on so that this actually shifts because this is one of a kind rather complex and innovative approach, which can have huge dividends, but without the right leadership, it could be a sinking ship pretty quickly.

Daniel: Yeah, really important part, I mean, you know, over and over again, you know, leaders are key to making things successful regardless of what their title is, but you know, filling the team and I can’t say this enough in this kind of a change environment, particularly change agent prioritization environment, filling the people, the team with low ego, high EQ folks who have a positive attitude, they’re resilient, they have grit you know, stick to it, they’re maniacal about making progress and being a change that’s the kind of folks you, you need leadership teams, this is not a place for an empire builder, right? You can’t make the right decision if you’re worried about those kinds of things, titles and organizations scope, and those kinds of things it’s got to be low ego, high EQ, resilient folks with grit and so I will say, I mean, a good example of this, I mean, we’ve made this change at the same time the hotel industry, and certainly IHG was going through a reaction to the pandemic, that was not easy I can tell you that was a high stress kind of a thing, it was challenging for lots and lots of people and the people who are successful are those who have, have grit who are able to react to what is in front of them in a positive way and then from a leadership perspective, you know, it’s the basic, you set the direction, you communicate and you support and so that’s the message on the leadership side of things.

Sanjog: Once again, thank you so much, Dan, for this rather enlightening and fascinating, you know, description and your journey that you’ve shared as how you’re trying to assemble business and IT capabilities like a Lego puzzle starting from building those Lego puzzles, deconstructing business, and then reassembling them quite a story. Thanks so much again, Dan.

Daniel: Yeah, thank you appreciate it Sanjog.

Sanjog: And listeners hope you enjoyed totally different, totally refreshing approach to you can tackle business on IT and move forward with innovation and growth. Please connect with us on social media, get podcasts on all major platforms. Once again thank you for listening to CTN, this is your host Sanjog Aul signing off till next week take care and God Bless.

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