Sanjog Aul [00:00:00]:
Hello and welcome to CIO Talk Radio. Retail and loyalty. Our topic for today’s show is Analytics in Retail, The New Breed of Loyalty Programs. We have an esteemed guest today, Sahal Lahar, who’s the Senior Vice President and CIO with Brooks Brothers.

Sanjog Aul [00:00:41]:
Now we picked up this topic and I would love to say this on air, that I’m just about to become your customer because yesterday I was at an event and somebody was wearing a brand new suit and a tie. I just totally loved it and I asked where he’s buying his whole wardrobe from and he says, Brooks Brothers. So here you go. You got a customer coming to you now.

Sanjog Aul [00:01:05]:
Now you get a new customer like me or many others, I’m sure. Now comes the point of gaining loyalty. So one person comes in there, buys something and you throw them a deal or may have some other program. So that’s the scope of what we are talking, is brand loyalty just about sending a few coupons and teasing them with price and discounts, or there’s more to it? What do you think should be the face of loyalty programs in the times to come?

Sahal Lahar [00:01:33]:
Traditionally when people think about loyalty programs, they automatically go to thinking about airline loyalty programs and things like that, where it’s all based on earning points or earning some kind of reward that you can redeem. But the overall premise of loyalty is much deeper than that. It’s really based on trust. The fundamental challenge for the retailer or the business that’s trying to gain and retain customers is to build a level of trust with them and make it less about a one size fits all program and really understand how they can improve the experience for that consumer when they do business with them. The reward people traditionally has a backfiring because a lot of times people have too many conditions and too much fine print and exclusions. That dilutes the loyalty program altogether because the rewards are so hard to use.

Sahal Lahar [00:02:37]:
And in other cases it’s very hard to keep track of what you have. In some cases now we also see, because whatever loyalty program you offer, those points or those incentives are all liabilities on your books, and people are now starting to make those expire more and more rapidly. These are all things that end up really frustrating the consumer more than creating that loyalty stickiness where you want the customer to be a customer for life. That is really the fundamental challenge that everyone is facing, and it really causes the programs to become very ineffective. If you go with just a mass media strategy where you are sending out the same mailers or the same email offers to all of your consumers without really understanding what is it that this individual is looking for and how can we create a model that is better for them. And again, if it all starts with trust, then even before you launch a loyalty program, it really is imperative that you are easy to do business with.

Sahal Lahar [00:03:57]:
And that means that you have a good seamless shopping experience. Whether you’re shopping in store or online, you have the same offers available, and the store experience is really very reflective of what you want to be known for as a brand. If you can do that and make the shopping experience seamless and really maximize every customer interaction, then you’ve already cracked more than half of the loyalty nut, and the rewards and points and things like that is really where you can start to take it to the next level.

Sanjog Aul [00:04:38]:
So would you say there is an actual conscious, deliberate attempt to gain people’s trust, or is it more connected to how a business really treats its customer fundamentally, because that’s a culture issue versus something you will put together as an initiative. Okay, let’s go and gain my customer’s trust.

Sahal Lahar [00:04:59]:
You hit the nail on the head with regards to the fact that it really is a change in mindset. The company needs to embrace that and not just look at it as a transactional mechanism where you’re creating a loyalty program and administering a loyalty program, but really looking overall at how do we gain the trust and retain these consumers, and retain not just the purchases that they’re going to make, but also how can we use our loyal customers as advocates. That is another piece that people don’t spend enough time on, making sure that your loyal customers are spreading the word. So what you kicked off the program with today with your own personal experience of seeing one of your colleagues or friends with a specific tie, that is another example of how to create loyalty and how to attract and retain customers, through word of mouth and through really having satisfied customers that believe in the brand and believe in the product. And the product piece is also extremely important, depending on which segment you’re in.

Sahal Lahar [00:06:26]:
So for us at Brooks Brothers, it’s always been about creating a quality product that consumers appreciate, and consumers really see that there’s a noticeable difference in how they’re treated. And there really needs to be an element of white glove service. It’s a cultural mindset shift, but it’s really unrealistic to try and run these programs in a silo with just one part of the business. It really needs to be an enterprise wide initiative, and it starts really with the associate in the store and how they treat the customer.

Sahal Lahar [00:07:06]:
And it goes all the way throughout the organization, with analytics and marketing and really the product as well, to make sure that we are meeting the needs of the consumer and we are coming out with products. That is what the consumer is looking for.

Sanjog Aul [00:07:25]:
When you look at the trust building, or even loyalty, and somebody giving rave reviews to another person who may be ready to buy but they’re on the fence, that means we have to touch a customer or perhaps wow the customer at every touch point across all channels for them to get that consistent experience. Is that where the ball gets dropped?

Sahal Lahar [00:07:52]:
The ball gets dropped certainly. The silos across channels is a very big one, and when you are difficult to do business with because you have inconsistent experiences on your website versus what you can get online, when you don’t have the ability to really make it seamless by opening up your entire supply chain and having an inventory visibility that’s really universal. It has to be delight the customer, maximize every interaction. And that means that for a brand like us, where we have a very large assortment, even our largest stores are not going to be able to carry every single size, color and style of every product. That’s just unrealistic, and the merchandising teams and the planning teams do a very good job of coming out with store layouts and a visual merchandising component to get our product into stores.

Sahal Lahar [00:08:58]:
But ultimately there are going to be times where inevitably you come into the store and you don’t find the product that you want. And the difference between building that loyalty and that trust and having the customer leave and be disappointed and go elsewhere because you’re unable to give them what they need is really a very big differentiator. It really is imperative that people break down the silos across channels. If you come into the store and we don’t have the shirt that you need in a 1532 in the specific color that you’ve picked in a slim fit, we can get it for you very quickly, either from another store or we can ship it to your home and make it seamless for you. And that should be done without having to then initiate yet another transaction and stand around for 10 minutes while we get on the phone and call the call center and place an order. It really needs to be one seamless experience. So if you’re buying three things and we only have two in stock, it should be one transaction, and we shouldn’t ring you up for the two and then have you stand around for 10 minutes. So that channels thing is a very key point you bring up, because we are in a different world.

Sahal Lahar [00:10:13]:
Retail, the basic facets of retail have not changed. But the digitalization of the industry and the fact that we are now in a demand and deliver world, where the customer demands and we have to deliver across all touchpoints, is really a different game, and it really requires a very different approach and type of service.

Sanjog Aul [00:10:37]:
Now one fundamental question I have is, I’m not sure I grew up listening to this intense loyalty program business. If we treated our customer right, people would just flock into those stores or those outlets, and so called special tactics were not deployed to attract or retain customers. So the basis of this deliberate attempt, is it coming because your competition is snatching away customers, or we are not doing something right, or we fear that we are not doing something right?

Sahal Lahar [00:11:10]:
So honestly, there’s two main drivers in my opinion. The first is that we certainly live in a much more competitive world than the days of old. The ability to find really anything you want, anytime, anywhere is just widespread with the Internet and the online world. So the reality of it is that regardless of what product you’re selling, and we see this across the board, the consumer is a lot more informed and educated, and chances are that, for the space that we’re in which is the fashion space, the consumer knows exactly what they want. While every brand has what makes them unique and the special sauce that makes customers love the product and love the brand, that only takes you so far. Our chairman and CEO recently made a comment about the fact that we’re a 197 year old retailer, and that in and of itself gives you a lot of cachet, and it gives you a loyal following and you’re seen as an icon and really a lifestyle brand. But it’s a double edged sword, because you don’t want to be known as the retailer that is just trying to constantly push the fact that they’ve been around a long time as the differentiator for them being successful.

Sahal Lahar [00:12:49]:
It really needs to be the fact that we’re old because we’re good, and we’re not good because we’re old. And that’s really a very important differentiator, because it is a very different world and it’s extremely competitive. The consumer is a lot more informed, and the reality is that if you make it difficult to interact and transact with, the consumer is going to go elsewhere regardless of what loyalty you do have built up.

Sanjog Aul [00:13:17]:
When we come back, let’s do a status check on the loyalty programs that exist in retail today and their overall effectiveness.

Sanjog Aul [00:14:59]:
So what is the current status of loyalty programs today?

Sahal Lahar [00:15:05]:
The status of loyalty programs today is really very much outdated in many respects. What I mean by that is that they’re all kind of predicated on a one size fits all model where you come up with some form of a program where you can earn incentives and then redeem those incentives. But there is very little personalization or differentiation to really segment that program across your customer base. The focus really needs to shift to a lot more personalization. The days of having a generic loyalty program where everyone earns and redeems the same rewards has really ended, and today’s consumer is looking for something very different. We’re seeing a very big shift in that, and I don’t think that for the most part people are looking at it that way and really trying to tailor the loyalty program to their consumer.

Sahal Lahar [00:16:06]:
It really is still how do we send more offers, or how do we send more coupons or special rewards, etcetera. So that is really how I would classify at a high level the landscape of loyalty programs, and that in turn represents the opportunity.

Sanjog Aul [00:16:25]:
Now you mentioned that traditional loyalty programs will not work. So what would be a good way to define the tenets of a good, effective loyalty program in today’s day and age? How do we define, of whatever we are doing today, what can be pulled out of it versus what could be introduced for it to be a good package?

Sahal Lahar [00:16:44]:
Creating an effective loyalty program really hinges on consistent execution and high quality service, and once you have that piece that takes care of the trust piece that we talked about at the beginning, then you really get into being able to transactionalize the loyalty program. Some of the biggest components are really to understand how are we aligning our loyalty tactics with the long term experience that customers need and value from us as a brand. And this is a good segue into another piece that we want to touch on, which is one of the focuses of today’s program, which is analytics. As far as analytics go, we’re really just scratching the surface in terms of understanding the consumer. Everyone has a lot of data about the consumer in their own systems. And as we all know, with social media and the fact that data is being collected at every point in our daily lives whether we know it or not, that includes everything from whenever you swipe your credit card or whenever you swipe your loyalty card, all of that data is being collected.

Sahal Lahar [00:18:08]:
And there are companies that are taking that and really trying to convert that data into insights, and that is where the imperative is for retailers to go as well. Really moving away from everyone kind of patting themselves on the back by saying, yep, we collect a lot of data about our consumers, so we’re doing a really good job, we really understand very well what the customers are buying, etcetera. But it really goes beyond that, and it really requires thinking outside of the box. For a nickel, you can buy several hundred data elements of almost anyone in the US, and that includes everything from what types of restaurants are you spending money at based on your credit card spending patterns, what kind of vehicles do you drive, and what are your tastes and interests. And that data can really augment the data that you already have, which is more transactional in nature and limited to your brand, to understand the consumer better and proactively look at how do we engage with this consumer. And the best part of it also is that loyalty is not just about retaining your consumer.

Sahal Lahar [00:19:23]:
It’s also about attracting new consumers and growing your consumer base, which ultimately is a very large challenge for everyone today. When you start looking at it in that light, you really can look at maximizing the use of insights from other external data sources to see people that have tastes that are similar to your brand but may not be your customer today, and then target programs to really make them a consumer and a customer for life. The data piece is really critical and is really something that is overlooked. Everyone really has a lot of data, but I don’t think everyone has a lot of insight. And the main benefit of a loyalty program should not be to reward the consumers for their loyalty, but really to understand how we can evolve the relationship with the customer to the next level, and to proactively maximize every interaction by telling them things that they want to hear. So as an example, when you come into our store, it’s a much more compelling experience for you if, instead of giving you a generic blurb on our new spring collection, we know who you are. And based on our clientelling systems and your priority shopping preferences and your shopping patterns, we’re able to maybe just pick two or three products and focus our dialogue with you today on those two or three products that are going to be of most value to you. And that is a lot more impactful than the generic interaction, which is the same speech that every consumer hears when they walk through the door because there’s a new collection.

Sanjog Aul [00:21:19]:
So the way the analytics has been created today, you mentioned that not everyone really gets it, they get a ton of data and reports but not enough insight. So what is not working with respect to analytics and the way that the data and insights are being churned out? And secondly, in what ways do we drop the ball, or are there gaps, from getting some insights and actually applying them in a loyalty program for it to be successful?

Sahal Lahar [00:21:48]:
Let’s address that piece of it first. The gaps really are that we, the collective, we are not really looking at the 360 degree view of the focused customer. We’re either looking at it purely as purchase history of what they’ve bought prior to today in the stores or online. Everything isn’t put together in terms of really understanding the customer and knowing that, since you became a customer, here is every single interaction you’ve had with us, and it goes beyond sales.

Sahal Lahar [00:22:19]:
It should be every alteration, every special order, every complaint, every interaction with the call center. All of those things need to be tracked in one place, and that is rarely done today. Very few companies have a true omnichannel customer master database, and if you don’t have that, it is going to be increasingly difficult for you to understand who your customer really is and how you can maximize the data, because the data will still be segmented and siloed. So it starts there, and then the second piece in terms of the gap is really how do we augment the data that we have in house that’s derived from our systems with some of these external lists, customer attributes that we can acquire.

Sahal Lahar [00:23:11]:
And it’s not just about going out and buying lists and superimposing the list into your customer database. It really is understanding who is the customer, understanding what are the things that are important to them, what are the significant events that they might have coming up that might require a different product. So if, for example, someone has a graduation coming up, that is a perfect opportunity for us to then market to them and talk about the fact that there’s a promotion that’s tailored to them, that’s specific to graduation. So those are the types of things that we don’t do. And it requires a very thoughtful approach, because there’s a fine line with being proactive, and that can very quickly turn into creepy, where the customer really thinks, they feel a little bit like Big Brother’s watching. And how did you even know that I have event X? And that can certainly be a turn off. So it has to be done very thoughtfully, and anytime you have that challenge, I think you err on the side of caution and try to be more conservative than not.

Sahal Lahar [00:24:20]:
The other thing that really can help us take programs to the next level is to leverage some of the new emerging technologies, and an example of that is beacons. Beacons in stores are going to play a very big role as we move forward, not just for fashion retailers but for retailers in general. And honestly even beyond that, because we really have to look at how beacons or things like RFID can help augment the data that we have and allow us to recognize that someone has entered the store. And based on that and other data that we have, we need to service them and speak to them about a particular thing. By augmenting this data and using these technologies, you can get insight that can be fairly detailed if you’re using a combination of on your product and beacons. Because we’ll be able to know what product is being picked up and then not purchased, what product is being tried on and not purchased, and where are the concentrations of customers in our stores, and how can we do a better job of what would be our conversion rate in a particular department.

Sahal Lahar [00:25:40]:
And this is where it becomes a real time demand and deliver world. If someone has spent 20 minutes in the suit department and they’re leaving the suit department, using geofencing we can track that with beacons and maybe send them a real time offer to say, hey, if you make a purchase today, here’s an extra incentive for you, and maybe there’s a one time use coupon. So these new technologies really become a very big part of making it game changing.

Sanjog Aul [00:26:11]:
And Sal, let’s look at this mindset that we all have, even as individual consumers, where we always check are we with the best provider. It gets triggered sometimes when a competitor goes and tries to woo a customer. Another time is that we ourselves are always shoppers and say, okay, can I get the best value for money, or can I get better quality elsewhere, or if we see an ad. So there are distractions. To what degree are these loyalty programs supposed to insulate a customer from those distractions, or building your own brand to such a high level that nothing else touches it and you remain top of mind? What is the core intention of a loyalty program, because perhaps based on that everything else will follow.

Sanjog Aul [00:28:38]:
If I were to create my program, to run my analytics not just to retain the customer when they come and give them a great touch point when they contact us, but also when they’re not contacting us but are being contacted by our competitors, what would you do there?

Sahal Lahar [00:28:58]:
This again comes back to really looking at the effectiveness of your program by really studying the analytics at a very deep level. Because to your point, there are two dynamics here. One dynamic is that your competitor has launched a program that is a slightly different flavor of what you have, and it’s taking some of your consumers and having them be wowed by that. The second is really to understand, out of the offers that we’re sending out, we really don’t want to dilute the value of the brand. And for us at Brooks Brothers that’s a very big piece, because we are not an overly promotional brand. We have promotions at set points throughout the year, and fundamentally we believe in our product and we believe in the fact that we create a high quality product that may come at a slightly higher price than a different suit or a different product that you could buy elsewhere.

Sahal Lahar [00:30:03]:
What you don’t want to do is dilute your brand, and it’s really a copycat world, but I would caution that everyone be very thoughtful about that and not just jump on introducing those same programs that your competitors are doing. Because when you look at the analytics of this, it’s very interesting, because sometimes you look at loyalty programs and analysis of the data will show you that marketing to certain consumers with a particular campaign is not even valuable, because if you look at their spending patterns and purchase history, those customers would have bought anyway. So what you don’t want to do is really create these campaigns that cast too wide of a net, because then you really will dilute the value of your brand, and it also obviously is an unnecessary hit to your gross margin if customers who would have bought at full price are being sent those offers. So it’s certainly a slippery slope, but it comes back to the fact that you need to look at who are you as a brand, what is your brand DNA and what is it that consumers expect from you. And if you keep those guiding principles in mind, those should guide the overall strategy of the loyalty program, so that we can really understand that we are going to draw a hard line and we are not going to do a certain type of promotion, or we’re not going to do mass marketing of campaigns with a couple percent off, but rather we’re going to look at the data to guide it and say, maybe let’s target the lapsed customers, customers who have not made a purchase with us in 12 or 18 months. Let’s go after those people, or let’s go after the people who are not even our customers today.

Sahal Lahar [00:31:58]:
So there’s an element here where you can’t just play defense. You really have to be proactive and go on the offensive, going after customers and driving them in, as opposed to relying on playing the defense of just how do I react to this other program that my competitor is running and how is that going to erode my customer base?

Sanjog Aul [00:32:22]:
If you were to look at all the data that we collect, whether it be from credit cards or other types of transaction data or even social media for that matter, all of that, and we’re talking about omnichannel and other forms of sources of data, and if we do all the data crunching and insights development, the output of that in terms of quality of loyalty programs, which in turn is supposed to give us some retention or perhaps some new customers, is that all completely measurable, or are there softer metrics which essentially is what organizations are looking for? Suppose you get your paycheck by saying I’m going to drive this loyalty program. Can you promise them X percentage better retention or Y percentage attracting new customers?

Sahal Lahar [00:33:13]:
So that’s a great point, and there is an absolute balance here of art and science, because it is not that precise where you can draw these one to one conclusions or measure these that tangibly. The soft side of it comes in, and the non tangibles play a huge factor in making these programs successful, because it’s very hard, even if you have the best systems, to really be able to demonstrate whether a particular purchase was the direct result of a campaign or the direct result of a program, or if it was just one of several factors, or if it was quite honestly not even related and they just happened to need that product that day, and because of what you had done to build your brand value for them as a consumer they were in store. It’s a very delicate balance, and another caution is really trying to make this too scientific, because if you just come up with 50 algorithms and then sit back and let the program run, you’re not going to be successful, because human nature is not predictable and does not follow a particular algorithm. The world we live in is certainly more dynamic than that, and requires the loyalty programs themselves to be more dynamic than that.

Sahal Lahar [00:34:43]:
While the data is a very important enabler and must be leveraged, it really should be looked at as just one of the levers that we have, and all of the other pieces, which are the non tangibles, really building your brand image and really making sure that customers understand what differentiates you, is extremely important. Because we’ve seen this certainly in other segments where, for example, showrooming was really taking away a lot of business from brick and mortar companies, because if I needed a washing machine, for example, I would go to Best Buy or Home Depot and I would look at and touch the machine and pick out the one that I really like, but nine times out of ten, people would then walk out of the store, and again, in the new world we live in, the customer’s more empowered and they would just search online to get that product at the lowest price. And you could most of the time find it at the lowest price, even if you have to have it shipped to you, with free shipping now being a very big differentiator. So that analogy is very important, because if you understand what your brand means, then rather than having to rely on playing defense to react to something that’s happened, you’ll be able to know that there’s certain things that you have in your favor that you can leverage. And then the science part of it really can take you to the next level, because you can really tailor your program to just particular segments of your business.

Sahal Lahar [00:36:28]:
Now, I bring up that analogy with the washing machine for a couple reasons in addition to what we just talked about. For us, certainly showrooming is less of an issue, but it’s still an issue, because people who come into our stores that don’t know the brand, if they’re a new customer and they don’t know what differentiates Brooks Brothers from other brands, could treat our store in that interaction as a showrooming exercise and say, okay, it feels like I need a 4D regular suit, and here’s the things that I like, and now I’m going to go online and order it somewhere else. But if your associates are doing a good job, talking about the things that differentiate your product, and in our case that’s everything from the quality to the fabric and what makes the fabric different, and the fact that Saxon wool, for example, is really a very unique wool that comes from a particular certain kind of sheep, and it’s the highest quality, it’s specific to Brooks Brothers, that makes it a lot more compelling, and it makes the consumer really understand that you have a unique value proposition here. And while I could go online and probably buy a suit for a few bucks cheaper, I’m not going to get the Saxon wool or the things that make our product unique.

Sanjog Aul [00:37:54]:
This is going to be the last segment, and we should look at what specifically we can do to really have a competitive edge. Because listening to this show, and many other strategies that exist today, we might do the same thing as the same competitor. So would we just keep and safeguard our own respective customers and keep them loyal, or would we also work towards gaining that customer base? And if we do have to gain that customer, it has to come from somebody else’s share. So what is this loyalty program going to be, so that we in our own organizations are looking at doing something not what just our competitor does, but also innovate? So what’s the innovation that’s being done today, how is analytics helping it, and what is the outcome of those innovations, so that there is some light at the end of the tunnel?

Sanjog Aul [00:40:15]:
If you were to look at the competitive edge in all of this, that’s what your business leaders would want out of all of this exercise. Same old is not going to fly. So what’s so special, what’s new, what’s different that you’ll do?

Sahal Lahar [00:40:29]:
The key thing here is to really learn from the mistakes of the past as a starting point. We talked in the first segment of the program about what are some of the turnoffs to loyalty programs traditionally, and for one that a lot of people can relate to, I’ll talk about the travel industry. People have recently been turned off the loyalty programs because what some of the companies have done is made the rewards unattainable, or if they’re not unattainable, the bracket is being set so high. But it’s also decreased the times where you can use them, so there’s more blackout periods, it’s confusing, and then the piece where it expires before you use it is another big turn off. So going with some of those lessons learned and trying to avoid those, and really coming up with a program that is simple and something that the customer understands, it’s transparent, and it’s not one where the customer is going to come away with the perception that the redemption is not worth the effort. Because if your program is structured in such a way that 80% of your customers are never going to reach a particular bracket, then you’ve missed the mark as well.

Sahal Lahar [00:41:54]:
So the big thing is really to start to get away from that, and it’s a two way street, because we have to listen to what customers want, and then we have to make sure that we have a multi channel loyalty strategy that is really built on solid execution of the customer’s expectations. The omnichannel case again is a key one, and not enough companies really integrate that across channels. So a lot of times my online purchase goes untracked or unrewarded, and that’s a miss; it needs to include all interactions. And the loyalty tactics really need to be aligned with the long term experience that customers value. So this really requires identifying patterns of behavior that are insights you can draw from your data, and you can look at lifetime value of customers and how you can monitor changes to a customer.

Sahal Lahar [00:43:02]:
And an example of that is we have a line called Red Fleece which really targets the younger millennials. That is a very good example of where a loyalty program done right can continue to engage and retain a customer, by understanding that they’re now going, for example, from graduating college and going into the workforce, and maybe now they’re going from their regular job to grad school and back into the workforce. Those things really are important to understand, because you can target the customer in different ways when you understand those types of dynamics, and any changes to their income or their monthly spend or other predictors of high lifetime value need to be taken into account. And a lot of times, again, this is going to require augmentation of external data. Another one is really to tie the data back to the campaign attributes. For example, are high value customers shopping in the store as a direct result of a social media campaign or an email campaign or a personalized offer? And again, this comes back to the part we talked about in the last segment, which is it is not going to be 100% science, and there is going to be a component here where it’s not going to be a one for one and you’re not going to be able to track conversion rates directly against a specific campaign. But if it’s done comprehensively, you certainly can tie everything together and understand how your specific campaigns and attributes of your loyalty program are driving your sales or not.

Sahal Lahar [00:44:48]:
The one other point, I know we’re coming towards the end of our time here, is that there’s data out there that talks about customers, and they say that personalized offers are most impactful. So I’ll just reiterate the personalization component as well, to say that, starting or if you are yet doing it, then continuing the personalized approach of offers will really increase loyalty to the retailer over time. And there’s actual hard evidence that shows that in terms of metrics, but then there’s also surveys and other things that McKinsey and Gartner and those folks have gathered from some pretty detailed analysis and polling of consumers. And then the one final piece that I’ll touch on is that we just need to make our customers advocates as well.

Sahal Lahar [00:45:39]:
We need to make them brand advocates and make them understand exactly what it is that makes us unique and why they should spread the word about our brand.

Sanjog Aul [00:45:50]:
On behalf of the show and our listeners, thank you so much, Sahal, for sharing your thoughts on how organizations can, number one, handle their customer loyalty as a strategic initiative and not just throw out programs and coupons which will have some limited value, and secondly, use analytics judiciously so that they don’t get into legal trouble, but at the same time keep themselves top of mind and thus retain and attract new customers.